# I just realized what passes the Bechdel test **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, movies\ **Created:** [June 10, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995 "2022-06-10T18:48:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/21 "2022-06-11T12:32:51Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This website has tested a lot of recent movies. It’s impossible to know if it’s an unbiased sample, but it looks like about 70% pass. Of course, that’s probably largely because of the existence of the test itself. Hollywood has, for the most part, responded, not by making movies more actually equitable, but by putting an item in their checklist “Include Bechdel scene”. And even still, with as easy as that is, a third of movies still fail. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/22 "2022-06-11T12:35:36Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > that crowd scenes in movies are perceived by the audience to be gender balanced when men outnumber women two to one; That’s interesting. When i was shopping nursery schools, i visited one, and as i observed “circle time” i thought it was mostly boys. So i counted, and it was exactly 50/50. But the boys had so dominated the conversation that i had barely noticed the girls. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/23 "2022-06-13T14:32:02Z")
When I saw this topic on the boards I was a bit taken aback. Mainly, because I’m wondering why do people get into a huff when it relates to Asians? On this very board way back when, someone started a thread about how Disney doesn’t represent women enough and cited the (then recent) Up movie. [I know, it’s was already an unhinged take… but UP!?!] Anyway, I pointed out that UP has an Asian male central character, which is by far more under-represented in movies than women. So here we are again with Asian Men in the extremely rare principal role (roles even) on screen and someone just can’t let that shine (not directed at OP). The movie is good. Gay Movies tend to be garbage with iffy to downright bad acting. This one delights. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/24 "2022-06-13T14:50:04Z")
Moved to cafe society, as this is mostly about movies and other stories. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/25 "2022-06-13T14:54:52Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > So here we are again with Asian Men in the extremely rare principal role (roles even) on screen and someone just can’t let that shine (not directed at OP). This is a thread about how women are represented in movies/TV. What does that have to do with how often Asian men get lead roles in movies? Also, what do you mean by “here we are again with Asian Men”, no one was discussing them. > [@sachertorte](#): > > The movie is good. Gay Movies tend to be garbage with iffy to downright bad acting. This one delights. What do the quality of acting in ‘gay movies’ have to do with anything being discussed here? What movie are you referring to as being good/delightful? Up? Was this reply meant for a different thread or am I just missing the connection? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/26 "2022-06-13T15:06:56Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > This is a thread about how women are represented in movies/TV. What does that have to do with how often Asian men get lead roles in movies? Because the OP references the movie Fire Island and the Bechdel Test. The whole premise is intimately related to representation and yet, when Asian men finally get some representation, it twists into a weird feminist thing. Again. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > What do the quality of acting in ‘gay movies’ have to do with anything being discussed here? Fire Island (referenced in the original post) is a good movie. A refreshingly good gay movie. It’s streaming on… something. Go see it. It’s good. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/27 "2022-06-13T15:07:16Z")
I think the comment was on-topic, if the broader topic is “representation in movies”. And I think that’s a legit expansion of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/28 "2022-06-13T19:03:48Z")
Nobody said that Fire Island was bad. Its relevance to this thread is that it’s one of many examples of movies that don’t pass the Bechdel test. Which isn’t necessarily a problem, for any given individual movie. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/29 "2022-06-13T19:58:18Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > We’ve discussed the Bechdel test on this Board before – the “test” proposed by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that asks if the drama contains two women who speak to each other about something besides men or their relationships to men. To be accurate shouldn’t _two women who speak to each other about something besides men or their relationship to men_ be divided by _two men who speak to each other about something besides women or their relationship to women_? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/30 "2022-06-13T20:01:42Z")
I also read an article that mentioned the video for Baby Got Back also passes the Bechdel test. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/31 "2022-06-13T20:22:44Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > To be accurate shouldn’t _two women who speak to each other about something besides men or their relationship to men_ be divided by _two men who speak to each other about something besides women or their relationship to women_ ? No, because you can’t divide by zero, and that’s the approximate number of films that would fail a “reverse Bechdel.” ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/32 "2022-06-13T20:31:18Z")
I agree that the number would be small, but it’s unreasonable to think there are not relationship stories where the entire point of the story is discussing the opposite sex. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/33 "2022-06-13T20:50:49Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > And think of a “male Bechdel test” where to pass, you need to have two male characters talk to each other about something other than a female character. Far far more movies pass that test. Even traditional “chick flicks” probably pass that test. > [@Miller](#): > > you can’t divide by zero, and that’s the approximate number of films that would fail a “reverse Bechdel.” Anybody got any good examples of mainstream movies that would **fail** a “reverse Bechdel” test—i.e. that contain no scenes of two men talking to each other about something besides women? I’d look for movies that were made from books written from distinctly female points of view, like _Little Women_ or _The Help_ or one of Jane Austen’s novels; but I haven’t seen any of these movies. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/34 "2022-06-13T20:50:51Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > I agree that the number would be small, but it’s unreasonable to think there are not relationship stories where the entire point of the story is discussing the opposite sex. That’s not what the Bechdel test is about. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/35 "2022-06-13T20:56:56Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Anybody got any good examples of mainstream movies that would **fail** a “reverse Bechdel” test—i.e. that contain no scenes of two men talking to each other about something besides women? [All Is Lost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Is_Lost). There’s exactly one conversation (well, attempted conversation) between two men…and it’s about a boat called the “Virginia Jean.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/36 "2022-06-13T21:08:44Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Indeed. Its proper main thrust is to call attention to whether (plays, shows, movies, comics) have women represented, and do so as characters with lives and personalities. It makes no judgement as to merit of the work _or whether passing the test is itself even relevant in each case_ Right. Once you are capable of saying, “oh dang, a whole lot of media lacks meaningful female representation,” you are **done with the Bechdel test**. It has absolutely no value beyond that point. And I don’t mean that in a negative way - it’s a very important thing to understand. What you choose to do with that understanding is outside the bounds of the comic strip. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/37 "2022-06-13T21:23:45Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Anybody got any good examples of mainstream movies that would **fail** a “reverse Bechdel” test—i.e. that contain no scenes of two men talking to each other about something besides women? Gravity, maybe? There’s one conversation between the pilot and Houston, but IIRC, the implied topic was an ex-girlfriend (or at least hookup) the pilot had had. Or, ooh, Fantasia! The only words are the “Ave Maria” section, which is about a woman. I thought for a bit that Hidden Figures might work, since we mostly see the male characters when they’re talking to or about one of the female leads, but there’s a conversation between Webb, Harrison, and Stafford about the weaponization of rockets, and one between Harrison and the Senate committee about the loss of Grissom’s capsule, and probably a couple of others. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/38 "2022-06-13T21:25:09Z")
I thought the conversation had to be at least sixty seconds long (or some other time limit) so the discourse at the beginning of BGB, meaningful as it was, would not qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/39 "2022-06-13T21:25:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Right. Once you are capable of saying, “oh dang, a whole lot of media lacks meaningful female representation,” you are **done with the Bechdel test**. It has absolutely no value beyond that point. This is correct—but the [original comic](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Dykes_to_Watch_Out_For_%28Bechdel_test_origin%29.jpg?20131108100914) showed a character who claimed she would only go to movies that pass the test. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995/40 "2022-06-13T21:28:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This is correct—but the [original comic](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Dykes_to_Watch_Out_For_%28Bechdel_test_origin%29.jpg?20131108100914) showed a character who claimed she would only go to movies that pass the test. Sure, to set up the punchline. It was a comic strip that happened to be making a very good point, but it was still a comic strip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-realized-what-passes-the-bechdel-test/965995.md?page=3)