# I just saw Deliverance and I have questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586 "2012-03-02T21:23:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/1 "2012-03-02T21:23:20Z")
First, if you’ve never see Deliverance, you DON’T know what the movie is about. Forget Dueling Banjos and squeal like a pig. That’s the first 20 minutes. The movie is about what happens after that. I have questions And I think I’m down far enough for the preview rollover. Ok Was Drew (Ronny Cox) shot? It’s left up in the air in the film. The guy that Voight killed the toothless man? When I watched it he looks at him, sees teeth and screams “No” but then he touches the teeth and I thought they moved as if they were false teeth. But, maybe I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/2 "2012-03-02T21:57:54Z")
From IMDB: \*Some viewers have suggested that he suffered a stroke or heart attack because of stress. Others suggest he did it on purpose, i.e., committed suicide, because he couldn’t bear to live with himself after the murder and coverup. In the director’s commentary, it is revealed that Drew refused to continue anymore, which is the reason why he shakes his head and falls out of the canoe…he refuses to go on after witnessing and being a part of what has just happened. In the original novel, Drew is shot in the head. \* I always took it as suicide. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/3 "2012-03-02T22:05:40Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > First, if you’ve never see Deliverance, you DON’T know what the movie is about. And if you’ve never read the book, you don’t know what you’re missing. Dickey was a poet, and Deliverance is a breathtaking display of wordmanship. As much as I like the story, Dickey’s technique is even more impressive. Deliverance is one of my five lifetime favorite books. And I am NOT knocking the movie, which I think did an excellent job. > [@Zebra](#): > > Was Drew (Ronny Cox) shot? It’s left up in the air in the film. Yes. In the book, Lewis looks at Drew’s body, confirms that his head was grazed by a bullet. I’m pretty sure this is in the movie as well. > [@Zebra](#): > > The guy that Voight killed the toothless man? When I watched it he looks at him, sees teeth and screams “No” but then he touches the teeth and I thought they moved as if they were false teeth. Correct. The false teeth move. Also, indirectly confirmed in the book. Deputy Queen openly accuses Ed of having murdered his brother-in-law (gone missing since leaving for a weekend hunting trip to the river). Later, the Sheriff (played by Dickey himself, btw) tells Ed that _“(Deputy Queen’s brother-in-law) will come in drunk. He’s a mean bastard anyway. Old Queen’s sister’d be better off without him. So would everybody else.”_ I don’t remember how much of this is in the movie. And yes, I have the book open in front of me, and now I have to read it yet again. I hope you’re satisfied. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/4 "2012-03-02T22:08:52Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Yes. In the book, Lewis looks at Drew’s body, confirms that his head was grazed by a bullet. I’m pretty sure this is in the movie as well. I’m fairly certain that we don’t see him being hit by anything. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/5 "2012-03-02T22:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Later, the Sheriff (played by Dickey himself, btw Wow, I did not know that, thank you. The Sheriff just seemed like another character actor to me. He wrote the book?!! ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/6 "2012-03-02T22:33:32Z")
And, just in case anyone brings it up. . . That is NOT Ed O’Neill playing the deputy at the hospital at the end of the movie. You have \*Leonard Maltin to thank for that tidbit of misinformation having metastasized as it has. When someone with the gravitas of a Leonard Maltingets something wrong, it can spread like Wildfire. \*Or whoever wrote that entry in his “Movie Guide.” ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/7 "2012-03-03T01:38:23Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > I’m fairly certain that we don’t see him being hit by anything. I meant Lewis visually confirming a gunshot wound on Drew’s head. I _think_ I remember that being in the movie. I agree we don’t clearly see Drew being struck by a bullet, but as I remember the film (I’ve seen it three or four times, but it’s been quite a few years) we _might_ hear a gunshot (hard to tell with the roar of the water) at the same moment Drew acts like he’s been shot. But my memories of the film are pretty iffy, so I wouldn’t be surprised to be proven wrong. . ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/8 "2012-03-03T02:13:22Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > And if you’ve never read the book, you don’t know what you’re missing. Dickey was a poet, and Deliverance is a breathtaking display of wordmanship. As much as I like the story, Dickey’s technique is even more impressive. Deliverance is one of my five lifetime favorite books. And I am NOT knocking the movie, which I think did an excellent job. And a great poet too, one of the best of the twentieth century. One of my favorite pieces: [Cherrylog Road](http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/171426) … We left by separate doors Into the changed, other bodies Of cars, she down Cherrylog Road And I to my motorcycle Parked like the soul of the junkyard Restored, a bicycle fleshed With power, and tore off Up Highway 106 continually Drunk on the wind in my mouth Wringing the handlebar for speed Wild to be wreckage forever. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/9 "2012-03-03T02:54:29Z")
I had read an interview with the director where he suggested it is left ambiguous on purpose - sorry no cite. However, while searching for it online I found this curious passage on [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliverance): _“During the filming of the canoe scene, James Dickey engaged in a bitter argument with director John Boorman. The result was a brief fistfight (instigated by Dickey, who was inebriated) in which Boorman had his nose broken and four of his teeth shattered. Dickey was thrown off the set yet no charges were filed. The two made up and became good friends, culminating in Dickey’s role as the sheriff at the end of the film.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/10 "2012-03-03T03:02:23Z")
This is one of my favorite stories – I’ve got an original version of the paperback book (not a first printing, but it’s old enough that the glue’s dissolved, and it’s come apart), and I’ve seen the movie countless times. Drew shakes his head as they’re going through the gorge, Ed is screaming at him to put his lifejacket on, but then Drew falls in the water. They then go over the roughest rapids, and that’s when Lewis tumbles out and breaks his leg (I love the effect of seeing the compound fracture – it’s not explicitly graphic, but you can see meat hanging from the leg, and a flash of white to indicate the bone). Ed and Bobby discover Drew. Ed asks if that could be from a bullet (looking at Drew’s head IIRC), and Bobby says, “Could’ve been a rock.” So in the movie, it’s never plainly said he was killed by a bullet. The rush of the water drowns out any gun shot, and when they show the body, there isn’t a clear bullet hole. By the way, does anyone know for certain if that was a dummy used for Drew’s body? If so, they did an extraordinarily good job on his face. If it was really Cox, how’d he get his arm so dislocated without harm? Or was he just that flexible? (I suspect it was a dummy, but dammit, I just want to know for sure.) As for the toothless man, he looks similar to the “You gonna do some prayin’ boy, and you better pray good” man, but again it’s not explicit. For the record, I get chills when Ed gets up before everyone else, and is about to shoot the deer, but loses it. The music during that scene is haunting. While we’re on the subject of this film, anyone know if Drew’s song is real (i.e., written outside the film): He sings, “Well it’s red meat/When I’m hungry/Moonshine when I’m dry/Greenbacks when I’m hard up/Religion when I die…” or is that all there is to that song? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/11 "2012-03-03T03:24:53Z")
\*Moonshiner’s Lament \*- [here’s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW4QP0lJsjg) Dylan doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/12 "2012-03-03T03:26:47Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > And if you’ve never read the book, you don’t know what you’re missing. Dickey was a poet, and Deliverance is a breathtaking display of wordmanship. As much as I like the story, Dickey’s technique is even more impressive. Deliverance is one of my five lifetime favorite books. And I am NOT knocking the movie, which I think did an excellent job. I’d seen the movie a few times, but I’d never read the book. I got it from [Audible.com](http://Audible.com) last year when they had a sale. I sat and listened to it straight through, till 3 AM, because I was thoroughly engrossed, and couldn’t bear to stop. Will Patton is the narrator, and he did a bang-up job. A true story about how the proper narrator can make or break a work: When I was in college, I tried to read some of Dickey’s poetry. He’d spoken at my college, and I was curious about his writing. I couldn’t make it work for me somehow, so I gave up. Shortly after that, I took an Oral Interpretation of Poetry class. One of the women in my class read some Dickey poetry. I listened with my mouth hanging open, because that poetry was GOOD. She’d understood it and transmitted it to me in a way that reached me, a way I couldn’t find on my own. It was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/13 "2012-03-03T04:23:54Z")
> [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > By the way, does anyone know for certain if that was a dummy used for Drew’s body? If so, they did an extraordinarily good job on his face. If it was really Cox, how’d he get his arm so dislocated without harm? Or was he just that flexible? (I suspect it was a dummy, but dammit, I just want to know for sure.) IMDB (whose accuracy I don’t necessarily trust) says Cox was double jointed, and suggested to Boorman that he fold his arm in that bizarre position in order to be a more convincing corpse. . ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/14 "2012-03-04T04:02:47Z")
I listened to part of the commentary track and Boorman relates the story about Dicky as Dicky was coming along for all the shooting and he was to play the sheriff at the end. However he was constantly talking to the actors and generally interfering. So Boorman asked him to leave and Dicky was mad and said he wouldn’t play the sheriff but he got over it and played the role. The director also said how the studio wanted the budget cut so much that he chose to cut the orchestral score and just use a guitar and a banjo. And the boy playing the banjo at the beginning? He doesn’t play. Another boy is doing the left hand work. He is just strumming. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/15 "2012-03-04T04:41:23Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > And if you’ve never read the book, you don’t know what you’re missing. Dickey was a poet, and Deliverance is a breathtaking display of wordmanship. As much as I like the story, Dickey’s technique is even more impressive. Deliverance is one of my five lifetime favorite books. And I am NOT knocking the movie, which I think did an excellent job. Allow me to 2nd or 3rd or 4th this. I saw the movie first, then found the book in my local public library. I was astounded at how good the book was. I’ve only read it twice, the last time nearly 30 years ago. I’ve seen the movie at least 8 times, but it’s really the book that’s firmly planted itself in my brain. Whenever I try and think of the film, all I see in my head is my own visualizations of scenes from the novel. It’s just that fucking good. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/16 "2012-03-04T04:47:37Z")
Not relevant to the thread, but IMO the scene just as Dueling Banjos starts, where the gas pump is pinging like a metronome, is a masterpiece. Ned Beatty’s discomfiture as an out-of-place city slicker is beautifully observed: “Say mister. I love the way you wear that hat.” Perfectly observed alienation as he tries unsuccessfully to patronise and mock the people he sees himself as far above. “You don’t know nothin’.” And his uncomfortable attempt at a polite smile and pretending he’s understood when the scary-looking other guy says (I think): “Who’s pickin’ a banjo here?” is magnificent. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/17 "2012-03-04T05:26:59Z")
I was really amazed by all the performances of the ‘extras’. Locals cast to play the locals. It really is an outstanding movie. I wish I could see it on a big screen. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/18 "2012-03-04T05:50:06Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > It really is an outstanding movie. I wish I could see it on a big screen. Looks like it was filmed on 70mm as well, which means it would really work on a huge wide screen. Amazing cinematography. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/19 "2012-03-04T06:56:00Z")
Regarding the locals who appear in the film, journalist Christopher Dickey (James’ son) wrote a book that included his memories of hanging around during the film shoot. I’m surprised to realize that I’ve only seen an excerpt, in which Christopher talks about his uncomfortable feeling that some of those locals were exploited by Boorman. . ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586/20 "2012-03-04T16:54:11Z")
Thanks, **don’t ask** and **TreacherousCretin**. As to **jjimm’s** post, I agree that that sets up the whole fish out of water scenario. Another beautiful part (in the movie) is when Lewis is arguing with one of the Griner brothers about driving the cars to Aintry, and Ed says, “Why don’t we go back to Atlanta and play golf?” That says a lot about the boys playing in man’s land. I tell people who’re only passingly familiar with the story that it’s much more than the rape scene. Ed’s transformation from suburban phony (he goes on “these trips” with Lewis, but can barely handle a bow and arrow) to manhood is astonishing, or as Lewis puts it, “Now you get to play the game.” But Drew, for his part, knows it’s not a game, a fact that Ed finds out on his own, almost to his fatal regret. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-deliverance-and-i-have-questions/614586.md?page=2)