# I just saw Gangs of New York **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187 "2002-12-21T05:39:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Keith\_Berry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/22d042/32.png) [@Keith\_Berry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith_Berry)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/21 "2002-12-23T07:53:48Z")
One more thing I dislike about the film: The inclusion of a black gang member in Leo’s group. Given the blunt racist rhetoric of a few characters and a few passing glimpses at the butchery that black people suffered during the Draft Riots, I think this totally uneccessary (and mostly non-speaking) character is just around for market demographics. I have no time machine, but I seriously doubt that racial lines were so casual back in those days, especially among Irish immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/22 "2002-12-23T09:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Keith Berry \* > \*\*One more thing I dislike about the film: > > The inclusion of a black gang member in Leo’s group. Given the blunt racist rhetoric of a few characters and a few passing glimpses at the butchery that black people suffered during the Draft Riots, I think this totally uneccessary (and mostly non-speaking) character is just around for market demographics. > I have no time machine, but I seriously doubt that racial lines were so casual back in those days, especially among Irish immigrants. \*\* I noticed this myself, wondering what the hell he was doing in there. He fills the same slot Cuba Gooding jr. had in _Pearl Harbor_; Ahistorical Black Guy Thrown In For Audience Appeal. I also wondered what purpose the Cameron Diaz character served, aside from the obvious Audience Appeal. She didn’t really help the story along, and her flip-flop loyalty struck me as implausible. Take her out, and the movie becomes a tighter two hours, with more attention paid to the most interesting character, Bill Butcher. ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/23 "2002-12-23T13:51:37Z")
Bill the Butcher’s accent sounded amazingly like De Niro as Paul Vitti. “You! YOU!!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/24 "2002-12-23T14:24:23Z")
I thought Bill the Butcher’s accent was very intriguing. You could hear the beginnings of the classic, flat, New York inflections as well as some old British remnants. I wonder how much research DDL did into the dialects of the time. It seemed very authentic. L. DiC’s Irish accent, by contrast, sort of came and went throughout the film. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/25 "2002-12-23T15:06:06Z")
I saw previews for it and was intrigued but will probably rent it on video. Love DDL but the handlebar moustache just doesn’t do it for me. Not sure how I’ll feel with DDL as a villain. I know, I know, I’m as shallow as a dinner plate. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/26 "2002-12-23T16:30:43Z")
Gods, again, as someone who read the book, you DON’T want to know what happened to black people… children… at the riots. Read it. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/27 "2002-12-23T19:07:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*I noticed this myself, wondering what the hell he was doing in there. He fills the same slot Cuba Gooding jr. had in _Pearl Harbor_; Ahistorical Black Guy Thrown In For Audience Appeal. > \*\* Ahistorical? I think the family of [Doris](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0213149) [Miller](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq57-4.htm) would take offense to that. Gooding’s character was a very real black sailor who was awarded the Navy Cross (personally presented by Nimitz) for his role in firing on Japanese planes at Pearl Harbor. Doris “Dorie” Miller died in action in 1944. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/28 "2002-12-24T00:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daoloth \* > \*\*Ahistorical? I think the family of [Doris](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0213149) [Miller](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq57-4.htm) would take offense to that. \*\* Ack! So there was _one_ historically accurate detail in that movie. I offer my apologies to any members of the Miller family who may be reading, though my opinion of the black character in _Gangs of New York_ remains unchanged. Unless, of course, someone wants to throw some actual history my way. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/29 "2002-12-24T00:59:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Ack! So there was _one_ historically accurate detail in that movie. > > I offer my apologies to any members of the Miller family who may be reading, though my opinion of the black character in _Gangs of New York_ remains unchanged. > > Unless, of course, someone wants to throw some actual history my way. \*\* Heh, I think you’re justified in your GNY belief. ---
**Author:** ![TVGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@TVGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/30 "2002-12-24T04:54:48Z")
[TVGuy drive by] Leo was looking awfully buff for this one though … rowrrrr! [/TVGuy drive by] (Oh god, did I actually just do that? Can’t breath. Losing concious…) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/31 "2002-12-24T05:10:20Z")
> [@](#): > > What I am wondering is who was crazy enough to give Scorcese 100 million dollars to make the film. I mean he is a great director but none of his films have grossed 100 and few of them crossed the 50 million mark IIRC. Well, I bet the studio thought that having Leo in there would boost the revenues substantially. > [@](#): > > The inclusion of a black gang member in Leo’s group. Given the blunt racist rhetoric of a few characters and a few passing glimpses at the butchery that black people suffered during the Draft Riots, I think this totally uneccessary (and mostly non-speaking) character is just around for market demographics. Well, seeing how the Irish were considered akin to ‘black’ by other ethnic groups, I could see where it might have come from. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/32 "2002-12-25T04:17:56Z")
Hey, was that Scorsese himself at the dinner table in the house that Cameron Diaz robs dressed as a maid? I felt all clever for spotting that, and I’ll feel equally as silly if I’m wrong… I liked the movie but I do think it was too long. As for the budget, I think this is a movie that will never gather much box office steam but will do business for a while. I bet they also counted on a large return from DVD sales–this seems like a “film buff” epic. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/33 "2002-12-25T04:41:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElwoodCuse \* > \*\*Hey, was that Scorsese himself at the dinner table in the house that Cameron Diaz robs dressed as a maid? I felt all clever for spotting that, and I’ll feel equally as silly if I’m wrong… My father noticed Scorsese at the table, too (though I didn’t) so I guess you’re both right, or both equally silly. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/34 "2002-12-25T05:12:59Z")
I heard something at dinner tonight that made me laugh. The GONY that you are seeing is not Scorsese’s cut, but the studio’s cut. Scorsese’s is about 1 hour longer. He is encouraging people to go see the film, though, so they can compare it to his cut when the DVD comes out! Ha ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![Keith\_Berry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/22d042/32.png) [@Keith\_Berry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith_Berry)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/35 "2002-12-25T08:34:52Z")
Scorsese says that the current cut is his cut, and there will be no longer version to surface on DVD. At least according to everything I’ve read, including interviews with Roger Ebert and The Washington Post. Wether or not that’s true remains to be seen. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing a longer version…some scenes in the film played out way too quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/36 "2002-12-25T10:47:18Z")
I couldn’t stand the movie. It was too long, the pacing was uneven, and I couldn’t bring myself to care for the protagonist. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/37 "2002-12-25T11:04:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*I couldn’t stand the movie. It was too long, the pacing was uneven, and I couldn’t bring myself to care for the protagonist. \*\* As my father pointed out, Amsterdam’s motivation was unique and engrossing. Imagine; he wanted revenge on the man who killed his father. I’ve never seen **that** in American cinema before! ---
**Author:** ![Keith\_Berry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/22d042/32.png) [@Keith\_Berry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith_Berry)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/38 "2002-12-25T16:09:47Z")
I wouldn’t have minded seeing a movie that was just about Bill The Butcher… A evil villian, no doubt, but one with humanity and his own sense of tragedy. It could have been “Raging Bull” redux, only with a lot of American political symbolism and such. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/39 "2002-12-26T00:23:20Z")
> [@](#): > > A evil villian, no doubt, but one with humanity and his own sense of tragedy. It could have been “Raging Bull” redux, only with a lot of American political symbolism and such. Intersesting that you say that since Robert De Niro was the original choice to play Bill the Butcher. Personally, though, I don’t think even De Niro could have played that character any better than DDL did. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187/40 "2002-12-26T16:31:44Z")
The IMDb says it’s Scorsese at the table. Their information like this is fan-submitted and must usually be taken with a grain of salt, but that makes me feel better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-gangs-of-new-york/144187.md?page=3)