# I just saw 'Into the Wild' and all I gotta say is... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539 "2007-12-19T01:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/21 "2007-12-19T14:50:01Z")
[QUOTE=nyctea scandiaca] I read the book and saw the movie. He may have come across as self-absorbed, but I came away with a strong sense that he was suffering from some sort of mental illness, and that was responsible for his odd and reckless actions. [/QUOTE] Same here. As for the movie, I thought it was terrific – when I could think of it as fiction and not like I needed to make a judgment as to how realistically or sympathetically it portrayed the actual individual. Beautiful landscapes, great acting, good music, and I truly got shivers of sympathetic coldness just watching the Alaska parts. Brrr. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/22 "2007-12-19T15:16:00Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Nobody deserves to starve to death. Period. Full stop. [/QUOTE] Pol Pot? Hitler? Stalin? Nobody? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/23 "2007-12-19T15:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=LilyoftheValley] As for the movie, I thought it was terrific – when I could think of it as fiction and not like I needed to make a judgment as to how realistically or sympathetically it portrayed the actual individual. Beautiful landscapes, great acting, good music, and I truly got shivers of sympathetic coldness just watching the Alaska parts. Brrr. [/QUOTE] I agree with that. I thought it was the best film of the year (and I’ve seen most of the good ones). I’m surprised the film is not getting more consideration for awards. (And yeah, McCandless had a deadly combination of arrogance and naivete, but that’s not really what the film is about.) ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/24 "2007-12-19T15:44:00Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Nobody deserves to starve to death. Period. Full stop. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t say he “deserved it”. However, if he had just brought a map, he would have seen there was a ranger station full of food and other emergency supplies within walking distance of where he starved to death. Trapped by the river? Well the map would have shown him that nice pulley system they’d set up only a half mile from the trail where he was standing, for the express purpose of crossing it. No one should get the death penalty for being stupid. But he made an extraordinary effort to avoid an emergency back-up plan in case anything went wrong, and that mitigates my sympathy rather significantly. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/25 "2007-12-19T16:05:13Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] No one should get the death penalty for being stupid. But he made an extraordinary effort to avoid an emergency back-up plan in case anything went wrong, and that mitigates my sympathy rather significantly. [/QUOTE] Maybe not, but there is this Heinlein quote: > [@](#): > > Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can’t help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal and execution is carried out automatically and without pity. > Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein’s “Time Enough for Love” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/26 "2007-12-19T16:12:27Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] I wouldn’t say he “deserved it”. However, if he had just brought a map, he would have seen there was a ranger station full of food and other emergency supplies within walking distance of where he starved to death. Trapped by the river? Well the map would have shown him that nice pulley system they’d set up only a half mile from the trail where he was standing, for the express purpose of crossing it. No one should get the death penalty for being stupid. But he made an extraordinary effort to avoid an emergency back-up plan in case anything went wrong, and that mitigates my sympathy rather significantly. [/QUOTE] IIRC he had poisoned himself by eating a plant that looked very much like another plant. He was very, very sick and that caused him to starve to death. He wasn’t in any shape to go marching a mile in winter. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/27 "2007-12-19T16:49:43Z")
I read a positive review of the movie and actually considered seeing it. But not any more. At least I won’t pay for it. Maybe I’ll check it out from the library to see the shots of Alaska. Sean Penn playing a 22-year old? 😕 Maybe it should generate Oscar Buzz for “Best Make-up”. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/28 "2007-12-19T16:52:15Z")
Sean Penn is the director, not the lead actor. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/29 "2007-12-19T17:02:18Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] I read a positive review of the movie and actually considered seeing it. But not any more. At least I won’t pay for it. Maybe I’ll check it out from the library to see the shots of Alaska. Sean Penn playing a 22-year old? 😕 Maybe it should generate Oscar Buzz for “Best Make-up”. [/QUOTE] I think the pitting was for the character more than the movie itself. Most people seem to like the movie. 80% fresh at rottentomates ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/30 "2007-12-19T17:07:34Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Nobody deserves to starve to death. Period. Full stop. [/QUOTE] I don’t see where deserving even enters into this situation. “Deserve” seems to place a moral judgment where none belongs. I can fully agree that no human living in human society should starve to death, and I donate my time and resources (admittedly not as much as I could) to that end. But that’s in human civilization. This fellow deliberately took himself off the grid and out of civilization, putting himself into the middle of amoral nature. Saying he deserved or didn’t deserve to starve is as irrelevant as saying an antelope deserves or doesn’t deserve to get eaten by a lion. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/31 "2007-12-19T17:25:00Z")
I don’t think it was stupidity exactly that drove this kid. I don’t think he put himself in a situation where he was sure to die out of stupidity, I think he did it on purpose. Some people commit suicide by taking a handful of pills, some people put a gun in their mouth, some people jump off a bridge, he wandered off alone into the Alaskan winter. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/32 "2007-12-19T17:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] I don’t think it was stupidity exactly that drove this kid. I don’t think he put himself in a situation where he was sure to die out of stupidity, I think he did it on purpose. Some people commit suicide by taking a handful of pills, some people put a gun in their mouth, some people jump off a bridge, he wandered off alone into the Alaskan winter. [/QUOTE] That’s ridiculous. The kid lived on the road/rough for a long time before the last fatal leg. Do you think the desert trips and sleeping on the streets were all failed suicide attempts? If some bum had stabbed him for his wallet while sleeping under an overpass, would he have “gotten what he deserved”? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/33 "2007-12-19T17:47:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Some people commit suicide by taking a handful of pills, some people put a gun in their mouth, some people jump off a bridge, he wandered off alone into the Alaskan winter. [/QUOTE] He died in August. Even in Alaska, that’s not winter. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/34 "2007-12-19T17:56:25Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] That’s ridiculous. The kid lived on the road/rough for a long time before the last fatal leg. Do you think the desert trips and sleeping on the streets were all failed suicide attempts? If some bum had stabbed him for his wallet while sleeping under an overpass, would he have “gotten what he deserved”? [/QUOTE] There are people out there who wish they were dead–they _long_ for death–but who lack whatever driving force it is that would motivate them to actually kill themselves, so instead they put themselves in harm’s way. We jokingly call it a “death wish” when someone we know behaves foolishly, dangerously, but there really are people out there with a death wish. So the deliberate placing of himself in danger off the grid, in places like “on the road” and “the desert” and “Alaska with no skills or equipment” could just be that he wanted to **be** dead, but wasn’t actually, actively, suicidal. I read the book, and that’s what I got out of it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/35 "2007-12-19T18:02:35Z")
So the 3 months foraging, hunting and the attempt to get back to town were all part of the elaborate subconscious suicide plan? Sorry, doesn’t make sense. eta: Youthful zeal and overconfidence born from a sharp mind seem the obvious explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/36 "2007-12-19T18:08:28Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] I read the book, and that’s what I got out of it. [/QUOTE] I read the book too, and I didn’t get any death wish vibe. I got more of an undiagnosed mental illness-y vibe coupled with idealistic dreams of youth. I think what makes his story unique is, unlike most, he was willing to live it (however briefly) while others stay within the realm of “normal life.” I’m not defending him or judging him for it, just making an observation. I just can’t imagine anyone (not saying you) could say he “deserved” it. A foolish young person deserves starving to death for bad choices? I’d hate to live in that person’s mind, especially if they’re applying this nonsense to all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/37 "2007-12-19T18:14:02Z")
I should have included that I haven’t read the book. Is it compiled from notes by his sister or something? Is the book simply his journal? I guess my bile goes out to the sanctimonious lines I kept hearing from the movie, so book…I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/38 "2007-12-19T18:17:20Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] If some bum had stabbed him for his wallet while sleeping under an overpass, would he have “gotten what he deserved”? [/QUOTE] He wouldn’t have “deserved” it- few people deserve to die- but neither would his death, in reality or the overpass example, have been sympathetic since in both he had an alternative. It’s a bit like leaving $100 bills on your dashboard in a bad area of town. Nobody has the right to rob you, but at the same time it’s totally your own damned fault if you’re robbed. I don’t think he was suicidal, but I don’t think he much cared whether he lived or died. The great irony of his life is that had he lived and written a book he’d be hailed as a great Henry David Theroux meets Jack Kerouac character, and that in death many still see him as such. I was irked by the fact that he gave his $20,000+ savings to various charities. The reason that irks me is that, unless I’m wrong, they weren’t really “his” savings but money left from a trust his parents had started. Whether his folks needed the money or not, he should have given it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/39 "2007-12-19T18:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I agree with that. I thought it was the best film of the year (and I’ve seen most of the good ones). I’m surprised the film is not getting more consideration for awards. [/QUOTE] It is getting a lot of consideration for awards. Many people are predicting an Oscar nomination, though the competition is fierce so I don’t know if it’ll make it. Here’s what it’s been nominated for and won so far: **Into the Wild** **American Film Institute:** Top Ten American Films **Austin Film Critcs Awards:** Top Ten Films of the Year **Broadcast Film Critics Assoc. (Critics’ Choice Awards):** Best Picture Drama Best Director, Sean Penn Best Actor, Emile Hirsch Best Supporting Actor, Hal Holbrook Best Supporting Actress, Catherine Keener Best Writer, Sean Penn **Chicago Film Critics Awards:** Best Picture Best Supporting Actor, Hal Holbrook Best Adapted Screenplay, Sean Penn **Detroit Film Critics Awards** : Best Picture Best Director, Sean Penn Best Actor, Emile Hirsch Best Supporting Actor, Hal Holbrook Best Supporting Actress, Catherine Keener **Dallas Fort Worth Film Critics Awards:** Best Picture (Runner Up #6) Best Director, Sean Penn (Runner Up #5) Best Actor, Emile Hirsch (Runner Up #5) Best Supporting Actor, Hal Holbrook (Runner Up #5) **Golden Globes:** Best Original Score, Eddie Veder, Michael Brook, Kaki King Best Original Song, “Guaranteed” music and lyrics by Eddie Veder **Gotham Awards:** Best Feature (Winner) Breakthrough Actor, Emile Hirsch **Golden Satellite Awards:** Best Original Song, “Rise”, by Eddie Veder **Los Angeles Film Critics Awards:** Runner Up: Best Supporting Actor, Hal Holbrook **National Board of Review Awards:** Top Ten Films of the Year Best Breakthrough Performance by an Actor, Emile Hirsch (Winner) **Southeastern Film Critics Awards:** Best Picture (Runner Up #10) **St Louis Gateway Film Critics Awards:** Best Picture Best Director, Sean Penn Best Script, Sean Penn Best Cinematography, Eric Gaultier That’s just the beginning. Lots more critics’ awards are still to come. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539/40 "2007-12-19T18:26:54Z")
I agree that he probably wasn’t overly concerned with his own death. I’m not sure how other people get “death wish” from the book when the author himself says in the original article: > [@](#): > > When I **[Jon Krakauer]** decided to go to Alaska that April, I was an angst-ridden youth who read too much Nietzsche, mistook passion for insight, and functioned according to an obscure gap-ridden logic. I thought climbing the Devils Thumb would fix all that was wrong with my life. In the end it changed almost nothing, of course. I came to appreciate, however, that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams. And I lived to tell my tale. > > As a young man, I was unlike Chris McCandless in many important respects–most notably I lacked his intellect and his altruistic leanings–but I suspect we had a similar intensity, a similar heedlessness, a similar agitation of the soul [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-saw-into-the-wild-and-all-i-gotta-say-is/430539.md?page=3)