What struck me most about the article (I didn’t read the book but am considering it now - was rather struck by some of the prose), was how willing people were to help this kid and try to steer him right. The guy that gave him a lift into the park bought him boots and then offered to buy him more supplies. A guy offered to buy his plane ticket to AK so he could work more for more supplies.
What are their motives? (I am assuming they didn’t just make this up to get into the book, as suggested earlier). Did they just see he was headed into disaster, and were compelled to help?
How’s the story told? Is it linear, flashback, is there a Krakauer character?
Also, is Holbrook’s character merged with any other characters from the book (as they often do in true stories) or is it strictly the Franz of the book? (Hard to believe that if he’s nominated for an Oscar this will be his first nomination- I always assumed he was nominated for All the President’s Men [or at least for the deranged Confederate clad lawyer in Fletch Lives].)
Flashbacky. Starts at the bus. Flashes to family vignettes, meetings on the road, etc.
Holbrook, as I best recall from the book, is just Franz. You don’t meet him until quite late in the movie. I’m again surprised by how much people are fawning over his performance. He wasn’t in it much more than Vince Vaughan (plays the farmer guy from South Dakota) or Dierker (plays a guy he knew from the hippie squatters camp).
Dierker had a sizeable role in the movie, and HE might be a bit of an amalgam.
Penn also tossed in other characters that I don’t remember. (the Danes) They might have been in the book, and I just glossed over them.
Funny you should say that. The first thing out of my mouth when my sister was telling about this guy was “Why didn’t he just commit suicide and skip the whole Alaska bit.” Kind of a harsh thing to say, I know, but that’s really what it amounted to.
I can sympathize with the emotional decision to be free of society’s constraints and living free, in the wilderness. But not the Alaskan wilderness. It makes more sense to go somewhere where it’s warm all year round and there’s plenty of animals to hunt and plants to eat.
As far as survival in the wilderness, it takes a long time to starve to death, a lot longer than most people think. What really kills you in a survival situation is not starvation but exposure, either hypothermia from the cold or dehydration from the heat. And the mistake many people make is foraging for food when they should be concentrating on shelter.
Of course, these things interact…you burn more calories when you’re cold, you make poor decisions when you’re hypothermic. But the people who die when they are lost almost never die from starvation, they invariably die first from hypothermia.
I think it can also be said that you make poor decisions when you are hungry, as well. I know I am not at my best if I skip lunch. I can’t imagine what it would be like after living on plant roots for weeks. A lot of things lead to this guy’s demise.
Yep, I was so happy to see it do so well there! I hope it does well at the Oscars too. It’s an amazing movie.
The Screen Actors Guild were not sent screeners of Atonement, **Sweeney Todd ** (a MIA Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter) or Charlie Wilson’s War (a missing Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts, and especially Philip Seymour Hoffman), so it’s impossible to say that none of the performances from Atonement were nominated because they didn’t like it. They didn’t see it to be able to decide.
That’s even worse–it’s second or third-hand unrealistic enthusiasm, which is how you end up with miracles. It’s like a painfully naive game of Telephone. Oh, and congrats for the implied comparison of McCandless to Jesus. :rolleyes:
That’s because it was only August, and, like I said, even a fat old Boy Scout could survive the Summer there. But was the bus crammed to the ceiling with food? Was there a stack of firewood next to it that was nearly its size? Ants and chipmunks know enough to prepare for Winter but he, at his best, was living day to day and, even if he hadn’t poisoned himself, was operating on the frayed edge of his abilities.
FFS, he went in August on purpose. I don’t know why you are arguing this. OK fine he was at the frayed edges of his ability. So we agree that he didn’t wildly overshoot his abilities. Good. Argument over.
According to Stuckey, the second to last man to give McCandless a ride, Chris didn’t plan to stay beyond Summer. McCandless subsisted successfully on his rice and the meat he hunted from April 29-July 2nd. What would be the point in a cache? (Into the Wild p.160-171)
McCandless noted that he had finished his trip on July 3rd, packed up, and headed for the river, which was too swollen to cross. He failed to keep the map showing the river crossing. He failed to study the details of the thaw which led to the swollen river. McCandless may or may not have consumed a poisonous plant listed as “non-toxic”. *But he did successfully live off the land for two months in Alaska. *
McCandless managed to camp and live off the land a few different times during his journey. He did not arouse the attention or resources of rescue personnel, and did not ask for or accept much help. He managed to trek across the US for two years making loyal friends, having adventures, and followed his own rules.
The kid lived an interesting life, worthy a biography, a movie, and some speculation and conjecture.
Wisely or unwisely, McCandless lived in the manner of his choosing for two years after shucking off a privileged life. He caused his family and friends unnecessary pain. What motivated his rejection of his family and the rejection of his education is still a mystery.
My point about starvation is that this isn’t that difficult. If you’ve got shelter, it would take a lot longer than this to starve to death. And he had the bus for shelter. If he was in good condition at the start, and if he had minimal supplies (that bag of rice), and if he did some foraging, it would be pretty much impossible for him to starve to death in two months.
Chill out; I wouldn’t know this guy from a bar of soap except from what I’ve read in this thread, and the New Testament comment seemed a mildly amusing, if fairly obvious, throwaway joke.
I would think that he is dead would suggest that he did overshoot them, if only slightly. Wild overshootings usually result in messier and faster deaths.
But you are right. It’s pointless to argue about this moron.
What an ass- I think anyone could survivie there for three months just by eating a bit of rice and plenty of water every day- color me unimpressed as well.
I didn’t counter your point. It is probable that McCandless was not in good condition; he appeared to place introspection above his physical health. His overconfidence and cavalier attitude about survival likely led to his end, whether by starvation, poisoning, or hypothermia.
I’ve been countering dropzone, who has been throwing out pat comments that contradict the facts that we do know about McCandless’ activities.
I guess the reason I was drawn into the argument is because you are saying “Pffft, I could do that” which is never very convincing, combined with “And I’m a fat old boy scout”. The “moron” was offered membership in Phi Beta Kappa, captain of his high school cross-country team, and in his early 20’s. He was foolish but I don’t see why you are so desperate to downplay him in every way.
Okay, maybe I was wrong about his winter plans, but it does not improve my opinion of him. And he wasn’t poisoned:
So, he wasn’t poisoned by his food and anybody with any wilderness training at all knows safe rules of thumb are ALL wild mushrooms are to be assumed poisonous and ALWAYS boil your water. In other words, he was a moron and in WAY over his head.
Yet he didn’t learn much from it or else he would not have starved to death so quickly. If he had any idea what he was doing when he first tried leaving he would’ve followed the river downstream (especially in ALaska, you are usually more likely to find civilization downstream than up) and after only a mile he would’ve found the tram.
How often did he come in contact with rescue people, especially when he was 20 miles from the road?
Romantic horseshit. His story’s only value is as a caution to others to not be stupid like him.
My point is that ANY of us could survive a couple months of an Alaskan summer with a rifle, some rice, shelter, and some knowledge of what is and is not edible. It’s what we were “designed” to do and we’ve been doing it for a million years, most of it without the rifle. That this smart and strong young man was down to 67 pounds when he died shows that he was not doing well at any point.
In this case, he was a moron by personal choice. His intelligence, athleticism, and youth should’ve helped him but they allowed him to believe he could do whatever he set his mind to, which is hubris. The key to facing a new situation is to assume you cannot do it without proper preparation.
It’s because there seems to be a cult of personality growing up around him and people, including some in this thread, see him as one who is to be emulated. He made some friends who found him inspirational? So what? Even I have friends and have been shocked to find I’ve inspired them, so that’s not so tough, either. He was a loser who paid the ultimate price for his vanity. He was not worthy of the original article, much less a book and movie.