# I just taught my nephew to tie his shoes... he's 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 16, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838 "2011-10-16T19:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/41 "2011-10-17T16:50:03Z")
> [@chela](#): > > lol, i find this oddly reassuring.I know lazy kids who will otherwise walk down the hall to the digital display rather than read the clock face in front of them…😕 > > :o :eek::dubious:☹ It wasn’t that she was lazy; she just could not understand the math concept. If it’s five to one, why isn’t the big hand on the five? She was the worst math student I’ve ever seen, BTW. We once moved between school years and she ended up with the same math book she’d had the previous year in the class she nearly failed: failed it again. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/42 "2011-10-17T16:59:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Holy cow. I think I’ve just discovered I’ve been doing it wrong all my life. I found [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7JNFsk1ER4&feature=related), and from the looks of my underlying knot, it is a granny, not a square. Now I have to undo thirty-odd years of muscle memory and remember to do the base knot the opposite of how I normally do it. Yeah, I made the exact same discovery about 3 years ago (I think it even was thanks to a thread here on the SDMB). I was making granny knots the whole time. I found it was easier to change how I did the first part of the knot, rather than the loops. At any rate, I went from having shoelaces which constantly came undone, to laces which nearly never come undone, in a day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/43 "2011-10-17T17:03:33Z")
My kids are both left handed and neither my husband or I are. It was quite a challenge teaching them a lot of things and for shoes I leaned on velcro shoes for school but for shoes they wanted to play in they had to take the time to tie them. It was the compromise that let me feel like I wasn’t a lazy parent but still got us out the door every morning without death and dismemberment. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/44 "2011-10-17T18:16:44Z")
I know how to tie my shoes, and learned a little late (when 8 or so) but I admit I don’t tie my shoes very often as an adult. I almost never wear sneakers, and when I do, I tie them to the right level and leave them. I do tie my hiking boots, but 99% of the time I wear womens’ shoes that slip on/slip off or maybe have a buckle. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/45 "2011-10-17T18:27:21Z")
With the assortment of slip-on shoes, Velcro shoes etc., I can actually see a kid not being pushed to learn - however, it’s a genuine handicap when shoe-shopping especially for walking shoes. If the Joey in the OP doesn’t have some sort of disability, the parents are doing him no favors by not pushing it. My Dweezil didn’t learn until he was 8 or so… but he has autism and fine motor skill problems, so he had an excuse. We finally persuaded him to master it by promising him a pet hamster if he learned. ---
**Author:** ![NajaSong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@NajaSong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaSong)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/46 "2011-10-17T18:57:46Z")
My step-daughter is 14 (almost 15 :eek:) and can barely tie her shoes. Despite being shown multiple times by multiple people, she either has no interest to do it properly or just isn’t getting it. It’s not really a battle I want or need to get involved in with her. She half-assedly ties her shoes loosely and just slides her feet in or out. It works well enough for her. Some day she might decide that shoe-tying is a necessary skill, perhaps not. My 8 year-old figured out on her own how to tie her shoes in kindergarten or first grade, but told me today that her friend taught her how to tie her shoes last week. :rolleyes: She tends to pick shoes that are slip-ons, or she does the same method of leaving the shoes tied at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/47 "2011-10-17T18:59:42Z")
Mom taught me the bunny-ears method when I was little, so that’s how I tied my shoes. But I really wanted to learn the big kid’s way (the loop method) so that I could be a big kid too. Sadly, it always eluded me. Until we were riding in the car, and my sister was putting her shoes back on. I intently watched as she tied her shoes. Aha! It’s one of those genuine “eureeka!” moments in my life, of which we all have several. I’ve never forgotten that moment, or how I felt when I knew I’d mastered it. Funny how that is. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/48 "2011-10-17T20:05:34Z")
I remember in Grade 1, we had reading time right after lunch. I loved reading time! It was my favourite part of the day. The problem was, I sucked at tying my shoelaces. So I’d come in after lunch and have to put my indoor shoes on, and would spend the entire reading period trying to figure out how to tie my laces correctly. ☹ I don’t remember when I finally learned how to do it quickly. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/49 "2011-10-17T20:24:50Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I know how to tie my shoes, and learned a little late (when 8 or so) but I admit I don’t tie my shoes very often as an adult. I almost never wear sneakers, and when I do, I tie them to the right level and leave them. I do tie my hiking boots, but 99% of the time I wear womens’ shoes that slip on/slip off or maybe have a buckle. Same here. I’ve always kept my shoes tied. Every time I get new shoes I say to myself “self, you’re going to tie and untie these shoes every time!” but it never ever works out. When I’m not wearing my “slip-on” sneakers I’m wearing sandals or barefoot. You guys are making me paranoid that my dad doesn’t know how to tie his shoes. When I was a kid he only ever wore slip-on boots, then I don’t know what he wore, and now he wears only Velcro sneakers. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/50 "2011-10-17T20:32:34Z")
My son didn’t learn until he was at least 8. (No learning disabilities or fine motor skill issues.) I tried to teach him several times over the years, but whatever I was doing wasn’t clicking for him, and we would both wind up frustrated. We stuck with velcro for a long time. I finally asked my mother-in-law, a former preschool teacher, for help. She spent maybe 10 minutes with him and he picked it right up. My daughter is now in kindergarten. She has never owned shoes with laces. That hasn’t been intentional, but I can’t remember ever even looking at shoes with laces for her. I can only guess that shoes with laces don’t sell well for little kids. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/51 "2011-10-17T23:39:49Z")
> [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter which is the rope and which is the loop. What matters is which crosses in front and which crosses in the back. Even this would be irrelevant if it wasn’t for the “base knot” having been done in a certain direction. To tie a proper square knot, just be sure that the second crossing (ears or ropes or whatever) are the opposite of the way the first was done. > > Your problem is you’re tying a granny knot, which comes loose with fiddling. A square knot tightens itself the more you fiddle with it. You’re crossing (presumably) right over left and then crossing the (new) right over the (new) left. You can either switch your base knot or your top knot to do it the right way. Actually, I started correctly (for a right-handed person,) but after the first crossing of the laces, I used to reverse the process. I think my mother taught me part one, with the two of us facing the same direction, and then Daddy taught me the loop-making part, which I learned the mirror image of. (Does that even make any sense? Even if not, it’s how I internalized the process at age five or so.) ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/52 "2011-10-17T23:43:18Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > For boots, round laces tend to be more durable. Also, if you hike, round laces pick up less off the flora. I can manage the loop method if I fiddle around with it long enough - I’ve needed for things I can’t recall at the moment. Not shoes - I tend not to wear shoes with laces anyway (the whole don’t-like-shoes thing), but I have a few pairs if I need them. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/53 "2011-10-17T23:46:59Z")
I don’t remember \*\*\*not \*\*\*knowing how to tie my shoes. But I do remember teaching another kid how, in kindergarten. And Miss Cushman gave me a gold star. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/54 "2011-10-18T00:03:14Z")
Color me shocked that so many people didn’t know how or didn’t care about tying shoes. Didn’t you or your kids ever play a sport? Wear dress shoes? Own hiking boots? I know you didn’t go to Catholic School. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/55 "2011-10-18T00:35:33Z")
I didn’t learn to tie my shoes until my mom had enough of my being lazy and wouldn’t let me go ice skating out on the pond until I tied my own damn boots. I remember the boots to this day…some kind of flat-furred, fake wolfskin-looking things from my grandma…and I remember DISTINCTLY knowing that I could have done this a long time ago, I just was being lazy \. But I was no more than 4. I could already read and write by that time, 'cause those were EASY for me. For some reason, tying my shoes was just a little bit harder and so I put off learning it. Unfortunately I’m still the same way as an adult, except now I _know_ I get impatient and grumpy over any kind of serious learning curve, and sometimes that gets me over the hump. Other times I still say ‘fuck it, I don’t want to learn \ anyway’. Unfortunately. \>.\< ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/56 "2011-10-18T02:32:44Z")
> [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > I too, know a 12-year-old who can’t tie shoelaces. His mother often whinges about the limited styles with velcro closures :rolleyes: It makes me want to scream, “He’s TWELVE! Not TWO!!” but hey, **he’s a genius in the making. Just won’t be able to tie his own fucking shoes…or do anything else that’s practical,** or part of the process of day-to-day living. God knows it’s a confusing world when everything doesn’t open or close with velcro. No problemo! F’ing geniuses today don’t need to know how to tie their own f’ing shoes…or do anything else that’s practical! Once they aren’t living at home with Mommy any more, they can just write a JavaScript app to do it for them! 😃 Geez, I only know one way to tie a shoe, and that’s the way I self-figured out in 3rd grade (as noted up-thread). I have no idea what all the rest of you are talking about, with all those differently named knots you’re talking about. I did, however, learn a more efficient way to lace boots some years ago when I took up ice skating. Now, if only I had ever learned to tie a necktie, maybe I could go out a get a job. Alas, I’m too old for that kind of thing now (learning to tie a necktie, that is). ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/57 "2011-10-18T02:58:23Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Technically, I still don’t know how to tie my shoes - the “adult way” that is. I use the “rabbit ears” method I learned as a kid, and it’s served me well. But apparently there is another (better?) way of doing it, and I just never cared to learn it. It’s the same damn method. I don’t know why anyone teaches the bunny style at all, considering that it’s the same thing, just with extra coordination required. When I was teaching preschool, I’d constantly go on the war path against the bunny ears. Look, you’re an adult, so I trust you can understand this: You know how in the bunny method, you make the loop and then wrap it, and then pull it through? Well, the only difference in the adult way is that you make the loop as you pull the string through the hole. Here’s a visual: Imagine a long rope dangling from a tree branch. On the rope are three arbitrary points A, B, and C ordered top to bottom. You approach the rope with a tire that you want to hang as a swing. You decide it’ll be easier to pull the rope through the tire than to feed it by the end. If you’re a bunny ears type of guy, you’ll touch point A to point C (making a loop) and feed point B through the tire. If you’re an “adult tie-er”, you could just reach your hand through the tire, grab point B, and start pulling. Eventually, points A and C will touch on their own. It’s the same damn thing in the end. But the difference in method is that with the bunny method, you’d need three hands hold the tire, to touch A and C, and to feed point B through. With the adult method, you only need one to hold the tire and one to grab point B and pull. It’s simply easier. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Holy cow. I think I’ve just discovered I’ve been doing it wrong all my life. I found [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7JNFsk1ER4&feature=related), and from the looks of my underlying knot, it is a granny, not a square. Now I have to undo thirty-odd years of muscle memory and remember to do the base knot the opposite of how I normally do it. Or you could just wrap the cord in the opposite direction on the top knot. Your call. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/58 "2011-10-18T03:36:37Z")
Just remember to overlap the ends twice on each wrap instead of once to keep them slip-free. Soooo simple. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838/59 "2011-10-18T10:41:52Z")
> [@Marconi\_N.Cheese](#): > > Do dress shoes come Velcro style? No, but they do come slip-on. Dad once looked at me funny and said “you tie your laces all wrong!” “… 😕 well, _you_ taught me, so have a talk with the teacher…” I’m a lefty-trained-as-righty and he taught me being in front of me (I don’t remember how old I was); apparently both things combine so I don’t tie my laces like other people. It holds, though, which is what I want it to do. > [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Color me shocked that so many people didn’t know how or didn’t care about tying shoes. Didn’t you or your kids ever play a sport? Wear dress shoes? Own hiking boots? I know you didn’t go to Catholic School. In order: not until 4th grade’s Phys Ed, and Wambas (the brand of sneakers we had to wear) are slip-on. Slip-on. Not until 10th grade. Yes I did, but again the acceptable models of shoes were all slip-on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-taught-my-nephew-to-tie-his-shoes-hes-12/599838.md?page=2)