# I just want a library card not a new mortgage. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456 "2005-08-17T17:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/1 "2005-08-17T17:36:32Z")
I haven’t had a library card in about 15 or 16 years. What prompted me to get one after all these years is that I’ve gone back to college and a library is a great place to get books I might find useful in my search for knowledge. Yeah, I guess that sounds more noble then saying I don’t want to pay out the nose for any books I might need to read while in school. I live in a small county in Arkansas that only has 3 cities. The library is very small, I accidentally drove past it while I was looking for it, but it looks like they have a nice reference section and access to some educational software. I show up at the library today and ask if I can get a card. She whips out the little card for me to fill out tells me I need to write my name, address, and phone number, the place I work as well as the phone number there, and finally I need to give them a personal reference from someone who lives in the country and their phone number. Here’s why I’m pissed. I don’t know anyone else in the county except my wife. If I want to be a fucking hermit and shun my neighbhors then that’s my fucking business and it shouldn’t bar me from checking out a book. I don’t even think they need to know my place of employment or the phone number. So this is my bitch thread about that. Not the best pit thread in the world and I’m writing to the city council, a polite letter, to let them know my position. If worse comes to worse maybe one of them will let me use them as a reference. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/2 "2005-08-17T17:45:24Z")
That’s bizarre. No library I ever got a card from needed anything more than proof I live or work in their “zone”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/3 "2005-08-17T18:01:44Z")
Good grief. I’m glad they don’t do that here, as I would be hard pressed to come up with a reference. I think some places pretty much assume that everyone knows everyone. Say you’re new to the area and see what they do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/4 "2005-08-17T18:09:27Z")
That’s just nuts. I’ve never been asked to provide anything more than proof of residency. Hell, most (or at least a lot) of the time when somebody’s applying for a library card, they’re new to the area and so wouldn’t know anybody anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/5 "2005-08-17T18:10:20Z")
They did that when I went to renew my library card, and we don’t have a small time library, either-it’s the Pittsburgh/Allegheny County Carnegie system, for crissakes. Do you have a coworker who’d be willing to lend a number? Or maybe you’ll find a Doper who lives in the area? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/6 "2005-08-17T18:16:01Z")
It’s utterly pointless, too. Are people who cannot provide a reference generally bad library patrons? Are people abandoning friends because they have too many overdue books? I’d make up a memorable name, like Cuthbert L. Gooch, and give 'em my cell phone number. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/7 "2005-08-17T18:17:41Z")
They did that when I went to renew my library card, and we don’t have a small time library, either-it’s the Pittsburgh/Allegheny County Carnegie system, for crissakes. Do you have a coworker who’d be willing to lend a number? Or maybe you’ll find a Doper who lives in the area? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/8 "2005-08-17T18:18:56Z")
Personal Reference Name : Haywood Jablome Phone : 328-7448 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/9 "2005-08-17T18:36:40Z")
Sorry. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/10 "2005-08-18T11:47:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Personal Reference > > Name : Haywood Jablome > Phone : 328-7448 Hey, I know him! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/11 "2005-08-18T11:51:08Z")
Jenny 867 5309 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/12 "2005-08-18T12:15:32Z")
I suspect it is a result of the Patriot [sic] Act. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/13 "2005-08-18T12:29:02Z")
## When I first moved to my current residence (one mile from the state line shared with the state of my previous residence), I got a form to register to vote by mail. The form required the signatures of two registered voters in my new state. The only people I knew in my new state were my two neighbors, neither of whom was registered to vote. (Maybe they didn’t know two registered voters either.) Another time, another city. My purse was stolen, and I had to replace all my IDs and cards. Everyone was cooperative except the library. You’d think it would be a simple matter of cancelling the old card and issuing a new one . . . but noooo. They required me to fill out a long form and to provide a police report and all sorts of ID (which of course I no longer had). Plus there was a fee (I guess for all the trouble I caused them.) ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/14 "2005-08-18T12:36:55Z")
The library is going to lend you valuable books at no cost. Some information establishing identity, residency, employment, and connection to the community is too much to ask? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/15 "2005-08-18T12:43:57Z")
But what does her employer and her personal references have to do with her identity? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/16 "2005-08-18T12:50:24Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > The library is going to lend you valuable books at no cost. Some information establishing identity, residency, employment, and connection to the community is too much to ask? Some information is fine. Address and phone? That’s fine. A valid state ID should be quite enough to get a card. Personal reference? What the hell for? When I was in Ohio in 2003, I got a library card from Greene County. They minimized their possible losses by limiting the number of items you could check out for the first two months to six. Drove me nuts. Since I was unemployed at the time, I went through six books in about three days. Of course, I did have plenty of time to make trips to the library. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/17 "2005-08-18T12:54:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But what does her employer and her personal references have to do with her identity? Nothing, although that info might support the validity of the identity. Identity was one item on a list. Libraries have various little ways, some onerous, some which may seem silly, to reassure themselves that they are dealing with someone who will return what they borrow. I routinely walk out of the library with several hundred dollars worth of books in my bag at no direct cost to me. I don’t mind providing a bit of information in return. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/18 "2005-08-18T13:02:13Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > When I was in Ohio in 2003, I got a library card from Greene County. I forgot to (ironically) note that I did get this card through a personal reference. I didn’t want to get rid of my Colorado ID until I had to, and my mother went with me and assured them I was cool. But if I’d changed to an Ohio driver’s license, that would have been enough. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/19 "2005-08-18T13:22:40Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > The library is going to lend you valuable books at no cost. Some information establishing identity, residency, employment, and connection to the community is too much to ask? I only have a problem with the reference. Do you think a person who is going to steal from the library is less likely to know a person to use as a reference than one who will not steal? I doubt it, which is why I think this is gesture that only causes inconvenience for the potential patron. Show me some plausible correlation between not have a reference and being a bad patron, I might change my mind. But as **Geobabe** points out, a lot of time one is getting a card is because they are new to the area, so they’re not going to know a person to use as a reference. Maybe they can just ask their next door neighbor, but so could a “bad” patron, so what’s gained? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456/20 "2005-08-18T13:29:31Z")
I don’t know of any correlation; I suggest you ask someone at the library. My point is that we borrow valuable materials from the library, and they don’t ask for much in return. If it’s impossible for you to meet their requirements, use your college library. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-a-library-card-not-a-new-mortgage/317456.md?page=2)