# "I just want to find 11,780 votes" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 8, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111 "2022-02-08T15:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/61 "2022-02-09T22:43:52Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > There’s more specifics on how each state ended up in this regard … here: Temporary\_Name asserted that “Republican lead legislatures” “refused to allow any mail in or absentee ballots to be counted until every vote cast on election day was counted”. Is there any factual basis for this claim? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/62 "2022-02-09T22:49:54Z")
One example from a quick Google search: > **[Talks collapse on a deal to let Pa. counties open mail ballots before...](https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-counting-mail-ballots-election-day-negotiations-stall-20201021.html)** > > With no deal between Gov. Wolf and the GOP-led legislature, the process of counting mail ballots can’t begin until 7 a.m. on Election Day, opening room for candidates to falsely declare victory. > [@](#): > > The Democratic governor and legislative leaders had been negotiating behind closed doors as recently as Tuesday to change the election code after months of inaction. But the General Assembly adjourned Wednesday and is not scheduled to reconvene until Nov. 10, a week after the election. > > In adjourning, Republicans turned away pleas from county elections officials across the state, who said allowing them to open ballots before Election Day would reduce the staffing strain and administrative headaches on top of whatever issues they’re dealing with during in-person voting. > > Without a deal, the days-long process of counting mail ballots can’t begin until 7 a.m. on Election Day, potentially leaving the results unclear for days and opening room for [candidates to falsely declare victory](https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/2020-presidential-election-pa-voting-problems-20200628.html). ETA: more broadly … > **[Fearing Delays and Chaos, Swing States Weigh Early Counting of Mail-In Ballots...](https://stateline.org/2020/08/28/fearing-delays-and-chaos-swing-states-weigh-early-counting-of-mail-in-ballots/)** > > The cumbersome and sometimes slow counting of an expected record number of mail-in ballots — especially in some crucial swing states — could delay results and open the door to challenges in this year’s elections. In 13 states and the District of... ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/63 "2022-02-09T22:51:27Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > One example from a quick Google search: That source says the opposite of Temporary\_Name’s claim. What was your point in citing it. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/64 "2022-02-09T22:52:29Z")
I don’t think it does say the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/65 "2022-02-09T23:11:31Z")
Republicans resisted efforts to start the early counting of absentee ballots. That’s what was asserted, and that’s what the article details. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/66 "2022-02-09T23:12:36Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > That source says the opposite of Temporary\_Name’s claim. Er… what? GOP-led legislature, check. Prohibition on starting to count mail-in ballots before Election Day, check. This is _precisely_ this issue **Temporary\_Name** described. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/67 "2022-02-10T03:05:49Z")
Not trying to answer for **SpacemanSpiff\_II** here, but **Temporary\_Name** did overstate the case somewhat. In many states, including PA as cited and **Temporary\_Name** ’s home state of AZ, tabulating of mail-in ballots was prohibited before the opening of the polls the morning of Election Day, but this is not precisely a refusal to allow those ballots to be counted before “every vote cast on election day was counted.” In many jurisdictions, tabulating of the two classes of ballots was happening at the same time, as counting of the mail-in ballots often ran past the time when the polls closed on Election Night. The point, though, is that the “Red Mirage” effect of deferring larger numbers of blue votes from larger jurisdictions is created by the faster reporting of smaller jurisdictions and precincts, while the suspicious-to-primed-right-wingers appearance of votes “in the middle of the night” was what was expected given the rules in place at the time. There’s a reason why no one looking at the election and trying to call states on Election Night called those states for Donald Trump - they know which jurisdictions and which precincts hadn’t yet reported, and they knew there were likely enough votes in those jurisdictions to reverse the trend that had already been seen. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/68 "2022-02-10T04:31:49Z")
The orange guy expected Raffensberger to go out in front of the cameras and say he won by one vote? It is to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/69 "2022-02-10T13:36:18Z")
More like he expected Raffensberger to announce it was really too close to call, and then Team Trump would take care of it from there. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/70 "2022-02-11T22:15:10Z")
“Get the computer karate guys on this right away!” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/71 "2022-02-11T22:33:53Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > However, skim reading the whole transcript, Trump is adamant that there are real issues with the count and he harps on that endlessly. Maybe that is because he knew he had to provide Raffensperger with “cover” for the crime he was asking Raffensperger to commit. > > Or maybe he really believed it - Trump was at the time surrounded by toadies who were telling him whatever he wanted to hear. And he’s famously a person who believes whatever serves his ego. His abilities as a real estate magnate be as they may, Trump is a natural actor and entertainer. If he’d just sold his dad’s business and moved to Hollywood, maybe he’d have been a far more successful man than he actually is. But the point is, he can act and he does so when he needs it. A lot of people listen to Trump talking and decide that he’s really genuine about what he’s saying, and truly believes it - regardless of how dumb it might be - because they forget that human beings are capable of acting. When you watched that movie where the dog died and everyone got real sad, they were acting, you know? The dog didn’t actually die. The more important thing is that he’s got a history of selling a line with complete sincerity for as long as he needs to and then turning around and saying, “Yeah, I knew all along that wasn’t real. I fooled you all! Na-hah!” If I was a prosecutor, I’d be scouting through footage of the man to find all the varying instances of him doing that - because there’s probably quite a few. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/72 "2022-02-12T01:34:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If he’d just sold his dad’s business and moved to Hollywood, maybe he’d have been a far more successful man than he actually is. Far more? Maybe he would have won an Emmy, instead of losing both times he was nominated. Or maybe he still would have lost. He instead was President of the U.S., and polls show him the front-runner to win a second term in 2024. Sounds pretty successful to me. I guess he would be a damaged candidate if forced to run from jail, but the law seems to be moving very slowly. Did you notice that the Georgia special grand jury can’t indict him? At most they can recommend that another grand jury consider it. P.S. Despite the super-careful go-slow approach all relevant prosecutors are taking with DJT, he attacks Black prosecutors in Georgia and New York for racism. And, politically, that won’t hurt him a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/73 "2022-02-12T02:10:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But the point is, he can act and he does so when he needs it. A lot of people listen to Trump talking and decide that he’s really genuine about what he’s saying, and truly believes it - regardless of how dumb it might be Ronald Reagan was a trained, skilled, experienced actor with a silver tongue and a gift for saying the right quip at the right time. Donald Trump isn’t that. There’s no comparison. The people who are conned by Trump are doofi extraordinaire. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/74 "2022-02-13T02:55:02Z")
So he’s no proper actor. But he _ **is** _ a bullshitter and a succesful one. I mean, really, the man has made it to age 75 grifting and conning his way through different kinds of ventures of varying degrees of success while remaining unindicted and never _personally_ bankrupted, and made an entire major political party his bitches. That suggests to me someone who is _ **not** _ absolutely devoid of any sort of ability, skill or guile. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/75 "2022-02-13T04:10:46Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I mean, really, the man has made it to age 75 grifting and conning his way through different kinds of ventures of varying degrees of success while remaining unindicted and never _personally_ bankrupted, and made an entire major political party his bitches. That suggests to me someone who is _ **not** _ absolutely devoid of any sort of ability, skill or guile. He has had plenty of setbacks over the years, has been caught red handed has had to payout settlements many times. The success he has had with nearly half of the electorate is not so much a result of his abilities in my opinion but more a product of the marks who make up that political party wanting to be his bitches. Seriously. They want to believe his bullshit is true so strongly they can convince themselves of some very questionable things and hold some very contradictory and illogical views. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/76 "2022-02-13T04:36:25Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The people who are conned by Trump are doofi extraordinaire. I don’t want to track them down at the moment, but I’ve seen contributors to both Lawfare and Volokh Conspiracy say that they’ve found something Trump said to seem true to them based on his sincerity. E.g. that he believes he won the election, that he believed people in the FBI were out to get him, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/77 "2022-02-13T05:03:48Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > If those battleground states had been allowed to count mail in ballots before election day- this whole flimsy “election was stolen” lie would not exist. The best narrative (from their view) would have been: Just not enough votes to overcome the enormous margin the Democratic Candidates had from all those legitimate mail in ballots. Which is why Republican legislators in some states are actually floating bills that would require vote-counting to be completed on Election Day itself, eliminating any counting of ballots after that. One of the stories quoted above mentions the “days-long” task of counting mail-in votes … Republicans would prefer to have none of that. Make mail-in voting harder to do? Check. Slow down the USPS so mail-in votes may not get delivered on time? Check. Deny requests by county auditors to start counting mail-in ballots early? Check. Mandate vote-counting stop at midnight on Election Day, guaranteeing many voters who used mail-in ballots will be disenfranchised, as their votes won’t be counted? Check. It’s almost like the Republicans really don’t want _all_ the votes to be counted - just the specific ones they approve of. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/78 "2022-02-13T09:04:26Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Which is why Republican legislators in some states are actually floating bills that would require vote-counting to be completed on Election Day itself, eliminating any counting of ballots after that. One of the stories quoted above mentions the “days-long” task of counting mail-in votes … Republicans would prefer to have none of that. They can also try to pass a bill that states that only candidates approved by the Republican Party can run for office. That would be an even easier way to stay in power and isn’t really any less likely to be struck down for violating the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/79 "2022-02-13T09:26:32Z")
I look upon the Trump/Raffensberger situation as akin to the stereotyped mob goon enforcing a protection racket. “Nice place ya got here. Wouldn’t it be a shame if a nasty bomb went off unexpectedly?” Did he threaten to detonate a bomb or ask for protection money to prevent it? Not in so many words. But everyone knows what the intention was. He is able to accomplish the same thing as an overt threat without the clearly illegal liability. It’s called covering your ass. Did Trump ask Raffensberger to throw the election? Not in so many words. But can there be any doubt about what he meant? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111/80 "2022-02-13T15:39:03Z")
[Trump wanting to “find” votes.](https://dilbert.com/strip/2000-11-26) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-want-to-find-11-780-votes/959111.md?page=5)