# I just watched Saddam's statue come down... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554 "2003-04-09T14:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alcibiades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Alcibiades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alcibiades)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/1 "2003-04-09T14:53:38Z")
Symbolism was rife. The US flag over the statue’s face made me gasp. Shouldn’t the coalition have let the Iraqi people pull it down? ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/2 "2003-04-09T15:00:26Z")
[CNN says](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html) that Iraqis took part in pulling down the statue. Maybe you just saw what you wanted to see? > [@](#): > > Marines watched as dozens of Iraqis tied a rope around the statue in Firdos Square and then took turns pounding at the base of the monument with a sledgehammer. An American M-88 tank recovery vehicle, equipped with a large crane, moved in a few minutes later to help pull the statue crashing to the ground. > > The Marines put a chain around the neck of the statue and covered its head with a U.S. flag briefly, before replacing it with an Iraqi flag. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/3 "2003-04-09T15:00:30Z")
That was awesome, wasn’t it. It’s not everyday you get to sit and watch history being made. Kind of reminds me of the Berlin wall coming down. I’m just really, really glad to see the Iraqi people happy about this. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/4 "2003-04-09T15:01:13Z")
They had tried, but did not have anything strong enough. Did you see the scarring at the base? That was from Iraqis with hammers trying to knock it down. They asked the Marines to help. Saying they should have done it themselves is like saying they should have freed themselves. They simply lacked the ability to do it. We were proud and glad to help. The US flag was met by cheers from the Iraqis. Lets not get our panties in a wad over something the victims of the regime cheered. The marines took down the American flag and hoisted the Iraqi one, to cheers as well. It amazes me that upon the completion of one of the most successful campaign, when a tryrant has been deposed and a people freed, all with the help of the USA, that the American flag makes you gasp. I was proud. I knew the flag would not stay up. In fact it was certainly the product of jubilant American soldiers, and not any official act. ---
**Author:** ![Alcibiades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Alcibiades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alcibiades)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/5 "2003-04-09T15:12:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Demise \* > \*\*[CNN says](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html) that Iraqis took part in pulling down the statue. Maybe you just saw what you wanted to see? > \*\* There were Iraqi guys on the statue, trying to pull it down. There were a few hundred people watching. A rope snapped, so a chain from a tank recovery vehicle pulled it down. **Newcrasher** > [@](#): > > It amazes me that upon the completion of one of the most successful campaign, when a tryrant has been deposed and a people freed, all with the help of the USA, that the American flag makes you gasp. I forget that you guys get a domestic version of CNN: on CNN International, they had said moments before that American troops in tanks had been chastised by their commanders for flying the US flag as they drove in the streets of Baghdad. Sensibly, senior officers are concerned about the impression this will make on Arab TV, as described by CNN, and we were told that the footage came courtesy fo an Arab channel and that millions of Arabs were watching on satellite TV. Next thing you know, the flag goes over the face. I gasped. An almost immediate translation of an Arab news channel was, to paraphrase, that “it should have been an Iraqi flag”, and then, “this will carve an image in the minds of Arabs.” ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/6 "2003-04-09T15:17:34Z")
[QUOTE **Newcrasher** I forget that you guys get a domestic version of CNN: on CNN International, they had said moments before that American troops in tanks had been chastised by their commanders for flying the US flag as they drove in the streets of Baghdad. Sensibly, senior officers are concerned about the impression this will make on Arab TV, as described by CNN, and we were told that the footage came courtesy fo an Arab channel and that millions of Arabs were watching on satellite TV. Next thing you know, the flag goes over the face. I gasped. An almost immediate translation of an Arab news channel was, to paraphrase, that “it should have been an Iraqi flag”, and then, “this will carve an image in the minds of Arabs.” \*\*[/QUOTE] I do not watch ANY version of CNN, domestic or international. You assume much. As I said, the American flag was simply an overzealous soldier. Well, the Arab news didnt like the American flag? Well then Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and Syria should have liberated them. I think the only impression that will be carved on the Arab mind by that image is that America cleaned up their back yard. Why are you picking for trouble when this is such a joyous moment for the Iraqi people and the American soldiers? ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/7 "2003-04-09T15:18:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fugazi \* > \*\*That was awesome, wasn’t it. It’s not everyday you get to sit and watch history being made. Kind of reminds me of the Berlin wall coming down. > > I’m just really, really glad to see the Iraqi people happy about this. \*\* Amen! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/8 "2003-04-09T15:25:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alcibiades \* > \*\* An almost immediate translation of an Arab news channel was, to paraphrase, that “it should have been an Iraqi flag”, and then, “this will carve an image in the minds of Arabs.” \*\* I suppose the Arab TV has a problem with the Iraqis I see on TV right now waving the American flag. What do you think will be carved in to the Arab mind by the image of Iraqi trucks driving by with American flags in the window? You, as well as segments of the media (western and Arab) will always look for the negative angle when you see an American flag, or discuss the liberation of the Iraqi people. ---
**Author:** ![Alcibiades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Alcibiades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alcibiades)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/9 "2003-04-09T15:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by newcrasher \* > \*\* > I do not watch ANY version of CNN, domestic or international. You assume much. > \*\* I have explained the context in which I gasped: I think that satisfies your complaint. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As I said, the American flag was simply an overzealous soldier. > \*\* I don’t doubt it. And I don’t doubt the over-zealous reaction we’ll see in the region. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Well, the Arab news didnt like the American flag? Well then Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and Syria should have liberated them. I think the only impression that will be carved on the Arab mind by that image is that America cleaned up their back yard. Why are you picking for trouble when this is such a joyous moment for the Iraqi people and the American soldiers? \*\* Why are you missing the point? With regional fears about American imperialism, the last thing anyone wants to see is an American flag over the face of the statue of Saddam. Far, far better that it was an Iraqi flag. This is not supposed to play as an American invasion: its supposed to be a liberation of the Iraqi people. The American flag flies over American possessions, not liberated lands. I’m grateful that the soldiers had the presence of mind to tuck the old Iraqi flag under the chin of the statue afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/10 "2003-04-09T15:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fugazi \* > \*\*That was awesome, wasn’t it. It’s not everyday you get to sit and watch history being made. Kind of reminds me of the Berlin wall coming down. \*\* This was _exactly_ the thought that passed through my mind while watching Iraqis dance on the toppled statue and riding the head of the statute like a sled. It was good to watch in 1989, and it’s good to watch now. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/11 "2003-04-09T15:54:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alcibiades \* > **I don’t doubt it. And I don’t doubt the over-zealous reaction we’ll see in the region.** I do doubt it. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/12 "2003-04-09T16:00:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*I do doubt it. YMMV. \*\* Yeah me too. The administration has gone out of their way to state over and over that this is not an American occupation. If we had hoisted an American flag over a government facility and kept it there as an official action, THAT would cause problem. Some will just see it in the worst light possible. Genghis Khan boiled people alive. The Romans made the conquered slaves for a time. The Nazis pillaged and mudered. The Soviets raped and plundered. The Amricans in Baghdad flew the US flag over a statue that was being torn down. It was up over ONE WHOLE MINUTE! THE HORROR!!! I think this Army will be known as the most benevolent conquering army in the history of the world. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/13 "2003-04-09T18:13:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by newcrasher \* > \*\*I think this Army will be known as the most benevolent conquering army in the history of the world. \*\* **Conquering** army? Well, at least you admit it… ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/14 "2003-04-09T18:45:36Z")
Yah, but that still picture is already up on websites, it will be in newspapers tomorrow, magazines next week, and in the next bin Laden video. The flag going up for one minute shows that no matter what the politicians say, the people of America are in the Middle East as conquerors. It was a boneheaded move, regardless of how the mob cheering around the statue reacted. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/15 "2003-04-09T19:08:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The flag going up for one minute shows that no matter what the politicians say, the people of America are in the Middle East as conquerors. I assume you mean that in the sense of “In the minds of the Arabs…” In which case, that’s true. However, those of that mindset are going to believe that we’re going in as conquerors regardless. I can’t imagine someone watching this scene, thinking “Well golly, I used to think this was a war of liberation, but that flag over Saddam’s mug has changed my whole viewpoint.” It may give them another talking point, but it’s just one more to throw on the enormous pile of manufactured “atrocities” that we supposedly commit. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/16 "2003-04-09T19:11:53Z")
“I’m just really, really glad to see the Iraqi people happy about this.” There were reports of a few hundred people cheering. You can’t draw from this the conclusion that “the” Iraqi people are happy about the war. There are thousands , maybe tens of thousands, of families who have lost someone in the war and I suspect many of them won’t be thanking the Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/17 "2003-04-09T19:30:28Z")
…or maybe it was just somebody who got a little overenthusiastic, “Hey, wait, the war can’t be over yet, I dint get a chance to shoot nobody yet!” [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.statue/](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.statue/) > [@](#): > > …Several shots were fired at the Marines as they prepared to topple the statue. The shots sent Marines temporarily scrambling for armored personnel carriers as they sought out the source of the gunfire, but in a short time they were back at work on the monument. And I guess these folks are still a little upset, too. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html) > [@](#): > > Two miles away from the celebration in Firdos Square, a Marine column moving into Baghdad from the east came under heavy fire Wednesday afternoon at Baghdad University. > > \< snip \> > > The firefight erupted, Savidge said, suddenly after a long stretch of road where Iraqis gathered on street corners to cheer on the Marines. > > “This was not the exact reception … anticipated,” he reported while under fire. “There’s a lot of smoke and dust now and fire. … [It’s] a far cry from the jubilant crowds … just hard to imagine two blocks away.” > > \< snip \> > > The U.S. Army has airlifted more armor into a coalition-controlled air base in northern Iraq early Wednesday, preparing for a push south along the northern front. > > \< snip \> > > Coalition forces are searching for two U.S. Air Force crew members missing after their F-15E Strike Eagle plane went down Sunday in the vicinity of **Tikrit, which is still hostile territory,** military officials said. [bolding mine] Saddam’s hometown. So there’s still quite a bit of mopping up to do. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/18 "2003-04-09T20:02:11Z")
_istara posted_ > [@](#): > > Conquering army? > > Well, at least you admit it… It’s what you “conquer” that makes all the difference, doesn’t it istara? ---
**Author:** ![Sinful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Sinful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinful)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/19 "2003-04-09T20:03:37Z")
haha, i saw the statue come down on the news. i especially like the part where we only got it about halfway down when all the iraqis stepped up to throw things at it. and i’m not sure but i think the iraqis took the ropes we used to take the statue down and dragged saddam around the streets. but all you liberals are right, the iraqi people don;'t want us there at all, they wanna continue to live under the oppressive rule of saddam. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554/20 "2003-04-09T20:13:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CyberPundit \* > \*\*“I’m just really, really glad to see the Iraqi people happy about this.” > There were reports of a few hundred people cheering. You can’t draw from this the conclusion that “the” Iraqi people are happy about the war. There are thousands , maybe tens of thousands, of families who have lost someone in the war and I suspect many of them won’t be thanking the Americans. \*\* Yeah, and I’ll bet those families outnumber the families that have lost someone that was murdered in one of Saddam’s prisons or torture chambers. It was amazing to watch. When they realized the rope wasn’t long enough people ran off for a while and they came back with that huge muscular guy that really took some decent whacks at the base with a sledgehammer. The guys on CNBC were saying he should be on ESPN doing that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-just-watched-saddams-statue-come-down/167554.md?page=2)