# I keep kosher. Can I eat Mr. Tumnus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 16, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977 "2010-09-16T16:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/1 "2010-09-16T16:16:50Z")
I had a conversation last night which began with discussion of the apocalypse and shortly thereafter veered into a discussion about The Chronicles of Narnia (don’t ask), and ultimately the question came up: would a faun, such as the lovable Mr. Tumnus, be kosher? He’s got cloven hooves, so would the only deciding factor be whether he has the digestive system of a goat and chews his cud? He can think and speak, but he’s definitely not human (obviously, plus he’s not considered a “son of Adam”), so could I kill him without it being considered murder (as I understand it, scavenging carrion is by definition not kosher)? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/2 "2010-09-16T16:54:25Z")
IANA rabbi or a mashgiach. IMnshO, a sentient being is not kosher. More practically, a faun is only half a goat; the other half is closer to a hyperadvanced orangutan {read: genus _Homo_} than any kosher animal. So, no. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/3 "2010-09-16T17:30:22Z")
I don’t recall him chewing the cud, and I think he came to eat a few times, so I’d say treif. Plus, hes’ sentient. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/4 "2010-09-16T17:40:08Z")
Having never read the Narnia books, I must say that I came into this thread expecting a completely different topic of discussion! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/5 "2010-09-16T17:42:37Z")
I submitted your question to the Great Lion by celestial fax. The answer came back as follows: _Do not entertain such follies in your mind. You know perfectly well that fauns are persons._ ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/6 "2010-09-16T18:55:40Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > IMnshO, a sentient being is not kosher. Nitpick: I think you mean “sapient.” Cows are sentient. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/7 "2010-09-16T18:55:46Z")
Only his feet have cloven hooves, not his hands/forelegs. I’d say that alone is enough to disqualify him. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/8 "2010-09-16T20:03:20Z")
It’s highly unlikely that fauns chew their cud, since most of their digestive tract is in their human half. The other deciding factor is whether a faun’s milk curdles. This question may be unanswerable, since, AFAIK, there are no female fauns. I’d have to go with No, too. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/9 "2010-09-16T20:05:39Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Only his feet have cloven hooves, not his hands/forelegs. I’d say that alone is enough to disqualify him. Do you know if there’s anything Halachically about an animal that has some cloven hooves and some non-cloven hooves? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/10 "2010-09-16T20:09:41Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > It’s highly unlikely that fauns chew their cud, since most of their digestive tract is in their human half. The other deciding factor is whether a faun’s milk curdles. This question may be unanswerable, since, AFAIK, there are no female fauns. > > I’d have to go with No, too. Of course there are female fauns. It’s just that the only NAMED faun is Tumnus. Anyway, here’s the Wikipedia article on [satyresses](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauness). (Fauness redirects there.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/11 "2010-09-16T20:16:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Do you know if there’s anything Halachically about an animal that has some cloven hooves and some non-cloven hooves? There are no such animals. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/12 "2010-09-16T20:29:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > Do you know if there’s anything Halachically about an animal that has some cloven hooves and some non-cloven hooves? > > There are no such animals. Well, there’s Mr. Tumnus. But the mere fact that a situation hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean nobody’s ever considered the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/13 "2010-09-16T20:31:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > > > It’s highly unlikely that fauns chew their cud, since most of their digestive tract is in their human half. The other deciding factor is whether a faun’s milk curdles. This question may be unanswerable, since, AFAIK, there are no female fauns. > > > > I’d have to go with No, too. > > Of course there are female fauns. It’s just that the only NAMED faun is Tumnus. Anyway, here’s the Wikipedia article on [satyresses](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauness). (Fauness redirects there.) And any gamer knows named monsters have the best loot. Tumnus probably drops druid gear… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/14 "2010-09-16T20:43:23Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I had a conversation last night which began with discussion of the apocalypse and shortly thereafter veered into a discussion about The Chronicles of Narnia (don’t ask) I won’t ask about the topics, but I am curious whether alcohol and/or sleep deprivation were involved. > [@](#): > > ..and ultimately the question came up: would a faun, such as the lovable Mr. Tumnus, be kosher? He’s got cloven hooves, so would the only deciding factor be whether he has the digestive system of a goat and chews his cud? He can think and speak, but he’s definitely not human (obviously, plus he’s not considered a “son of Adam”), so could I kill him without it being considered murder (as I understand it, scavenging carrion is by definition not kosher)? Given the portrayal of him eating given in the books (minimal, but human sorts of food) I’d guess he is NOT a cud-chewing animal thus, combined with “splitting the hoof”, _traif_. Best to err on the side of caution. Unless, of course, you are using the term “eating” as a euphemism for oral sex which is OK with me, personally, but gets into issues of inter-species sexual contact and possible bestiality. But I’m assuming that’s not what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/15 "2010-09-16T21:51:26Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > It’s highly unlikely that fauns chew their cud, since most of their digestive tract is in their human half. The other deciding factor is whether a faun’s milk curdles. This question may be unanswerable, since, AFAIK, there are no female fauns. > > I’d have to go with No, too. Interesting - I’m unfamiliar with the curdling thing. Is that an actual ‘test’ of kosherness? > [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@NinjaChick](#): > > > > I had a conversation last night which began with discussion of the apocalypse and shortly thereafter veered into a discussion about The Chronicles of Narnia (don’t ask) > > I won’t ask about the topics, but I am curious whether alcohol and/or sleep deprivation were involved. > > > [@](#): > > > > ..and ultimately the question came up: would a faun, such as the lovable Mr. Tumnus, be kosher? He’s got cloven hooves, so would the only deciding factor be whether he has the digestive system of a goat and chews his cud? He can think and speak, but he’s definitely not human (obviously, plus he’s not considered a “son of Adam”), so could I kill him without it being considered murder (as I understand it, scavenging carrion is by definition not kosher)? > > Given the portrayal of him eating given in the books (minimal, but human sorts of food) I’d guess he is NOT a cud-chewing animal thus, combined with “splitting the hoof”, _traif_. Best to err on the side of caution. > > Unless, of course, you are using the term “eating” as a euphemism for oral sex which is OK with me, personally, but gets into issues of inter-species sexual contact and possible bestiality. But I’m assuming that’s not what you meant. Shockingly, alcohol was indeed involved. And yeah - I just looked it up in the book, and we see him eat (amongst other things) a boiled egg and sardines on toast, so I’m guessing he’s not a ruminant. And, well, I did not mean the more erotic implications of my questions - and anyway, I’ve never seen a depiction of Mr. Tumnus that included any sort of visible genitals. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/16 "2010-09-16T22:27:24Z")
IANAJew, but my understanding (from other threads contributed to by knowledgeable and Kosher Jews) is that, if your life is in peril, and could be saved by doing something that is expressly forbidden (for instance, if you were starving to death, literally, and the _only_ food available to you was a pork chop), then it is more a sin to _not_ save your life than it is to eat something non-Kosher. (Does ‘Kosher’ get capitalized? 😕 ) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/17 "2010-09-16T22:39:06Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Interesting - I’m unfamiliar with the curdling thing. Is that an actual ‘test’ of kosherness? Yes. I don’t know if this is scientifically true, but the idea is that milk from a kosher animal curdles and milk from a non-kosher animal doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/18 "2010-09-16T22:58:47Z")
> [@](#): > > IANAJew, but my understanding (from other threads contributed to by knowledgeable and Kosher Jews) is that, if your life is in peril, and could be saved by doing something that is expressly forbidden (for instance, if you were starving to death, literally, and the only food available to you was a pork chop), then it is more a sin to not save your life than it is to eat something non-Kosher. There are still a handful of absolute prohibitions, as I understand it: If, for instance, you’re kidnapped by savages and they force you to worship their idolatrous gods or be killed, I think you’re supposed to die rather than take part in idolatry. Such situations are even rarer than starving but for a pork chop, though. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/19 "2010-09-16T23:12:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Unless, of course, you are using the term “eating” as a euphemism for oral sex which is OK with me, personally, but gets into issues of inter-species sexual contact and possible bestiality… If he gets excluded from eating eligibility (in part at least) by being sapient, then it would equally not be bestiality. Miscegenation possibly, but not bestiality… although his [percentage furry](http://www.sharenator.com/Furry_Percentage/) is disturbingly high. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977/20 "2010-09-16T23:38:22Z")
I think you could eat his legs… And you could probably do that without killing him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-keep-kosher-can-i-eat-mr-tumnus/553977.md?page=2)