# I knew it wouldn't last, Florida. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223 "2008-11-05T06:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/21 "2008-11-05T10:25:42Z")
1. Obama won because he won over moderates. He didn’t win over any of the rabid right, just as Bush didn’t win over any of the rabid left in '00 and '04. 2. Since some people get all freaked out by two people of the same sex calling themselves “married”, maybe gay rights advocates should simply come up with a new term for a same sex union. If they want to get cheeky, they could call it a “fairiage.” Or get hoity-toity and call it a “gay-riage.” ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/22 "2008-11-05T10:27:33Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I’ll see you all in Stockholm. Yes, that will help. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/23 "2008-11-05T11:25:55Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I’ll see you all in Stockholm. No. Bigots don’t get to claim this country, fuck that. > [@PunditLisa](#): > > 1. Since some people get all freaked out by two people of the same sex calling themselves “married”, maybe gay rights advocates should simply come up with a new term for a same sex union. If they want to get cheeky, they could call it a “fairiage.” Or get hoity-toity and call it a “gay-riage.” I’m a big fan of government not sticking their noses into the matter of marriage. They should issue civil union licenses, which covers the legal, financial, etc. aspects of such a pairing. Churches can then decide who they want to marry. Why do fundamentalists think that part of their sacred union in the eyes of God involves a government contract? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/24 "2008-11-05T11:29:03Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > No. Bigots don’t get to claim this country, fuck that. They’ve always claimed this country. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/25 "2008-11-05T11:43:27Z")
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” This is Florida, after all. In a discussion with my co-workers on the subject, I discovered that many (possibly most) of them were unsure whether Amendment 2was supposed to protect gay marriages or protect marriage from gays. I have the lurking suspicion that many well-intentioned but thunderously dim people may have voted in favor of the amendment, believing that it would “amend” the current situation wherein gay marriage is illegal in Florida. Okay, it’s kind of a stretch; I realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/26 "2008-11-05T12:19:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They’ve always claimed this country. Yeah, but if the open-minded don’t stick behind, they’ll get the whole thing, is what I’m saying. I shudder to think of the effect. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/27 "2008-11-05T12:50:15Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > 1. Since some people get all freaked out by two people of the same sex calling themselves “married”, maybe gay rights advocates should simply come up with a new term for a same sex union. If they want to get cheeky, they could call it a “fairiage.” Or get hoity-toity and call it a “gay-riage.” I’m all for this. However, Prop 2 outlaws it. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/28 "2008-11-05T13:22:24Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I dunno - you can fantasize all you like about the idea that a country, where the POTUSA will always have to declare themselves a Christian (capital ‘C’), will ever accept the fact that same sex marriages will become norm. But really, you’re going to have to move to another continent before you ever see that become a reality. Me - I’m all primed to move to Scandinavia, and I’m not even gay, but I’m sick to death of being around ‘liberals’ who care about you, and want you to feel equal to every one else, so long as you don’t enjoy the company of (gasp!) members of the same sex. > > Alright, so now you’ve broken through one barrier, what year do you think it will be when you’re able to trump Christian bias against gays, for liberal bias in favour of gays. 2200? 2400? > > I’ll see you all in Stockholm. Stop by in Oslo, I’ll buy you a beer for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/29 "2008-11-05T13:33:12Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Ditto. I tried my best. Unfortunately, there was literally nobody trying to oppose it. I never once saw a sign saying “Vote no on 2”. Only happy little blue and red stick figures that held hands and said “Vote yes on 2, for safe children” or somesuch bullshit. Same here. I am utterly unsurprised by this. All I can say is that we’ll keep trying and someday we’ll get it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/30 "2008-11-05T13:50:27Z")
I can’t believe I’m seeing this stuff in the 21st century. It looks no stupider in my eyes than laws against inter-racial marriage. Obviously, I must be in the minority on this view (compared to the real world, not the SDMB). ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/31 "2008-11-05T14:00:59Z")
Aside from all the warm and fuzzy feelings one presumably gets from marrying their loved one, what rights or advantages would same sex couples gain under state law (California or Florida)? Does the federal government recognize these marriages? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/32 "2008-11-05T14:07:08Z")
Look, it’s understandable that people are upset about this, I’m personally OK with gay marriage, and/or the elimination of all ‘marriage’ as a ‘class’ with a legal definition, but like the presidential election, the people have spoken. Some with honest, decent, real beliefs in the one man+one woman=marriage concept, including President-Elect Obama. It didn’t happen this time, but on the other hand, there’s a black man heading for the white house in two short months. One step at a time people. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/33 "2008-11-05T14:13:10Z")
sigh Well, at least we’re “protected” now. As to MOIDALIZE’s question, the new constitutional amendment also bans civil unions for everyone. That means that couples who aren’t married forfeit any rights or protections. Like the ability to visit a hospitalized loved one as “family”. If I understand it correctly, it could also theoretically prevent benefits from more progressive companies. I’m not gay, I don’t have any close friends in the state that are gay, but it just sucks that they had to enshrine a law that amounts to bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/34 "2008-11-05T14:14:35Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I dunno - you can fantasize all you like about the idea that a country, where the POTUSA will always have to declare themselves a Christian (capital ‘C’), will ever accept the fact that same sex marriages will become norm. But really, you’re going to have to move to another continent before you ever see that become a reality. Me - I’m all primed to move to Scandinavia, and I’m not even gay, but I’m sick to death of being around ‘liberals’ who care about you, and want you to feel equal to every one else, so long as you don’t enjoy the company of (gasp!) members of the same sex. > > Alright, so now you’ve broken through one barrier, what year do you think it will be when you’re able to trump Christian bias against gays, for liberal bias in favour of gays. 2200? 2400? > > I’ll see you all in Stockholm. Dude, last time I checked, Canada was still in North America. Same-sex marriage has been legal here long enough to elicit yawns from the vast majority the electorate. And, contrary to all of the doomsayers, I have yet to encounter any hellfire or pitchforks on my daily commute to work (despite the re-election of Stephen Harper). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/35 "2008-11-05T14:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=ladyfoxfyre] Ditto. I tried my best. Unfortunately, there was literally nobody trying to oppose it. I never once saw a sign saying “Vote no on 2”. Only happy little blue and red stick figures that held hands and said “Vote yes on 2, for safe children” or somesuch bullshit. [/QUOTE] > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > There were a bunch in downtown Orlando yesterday… I counted at least three groups of eight (and jumped out of my car during my lunch break to help wave placards). > Aside from all the warm and fuzzy feelings one presumably gets from marrying their loved one, what rights or advantages would same sex couples gain under state law (California or Florida)? Does the federal government recognize these marriages? This is a pretty pointless amendment, since gay marriage isn’t legal in Florida, but it basically ensures that SSM couples who are married elsewhere don’t have to be treated as married couples. It also makes things pretty tricky in terms of it becoming legal here. > [@Terrifel](#): > > “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” > > This is Florida, after all. In a discussion with my co-workers on the subject, I discovered that many (possibly most) of them were unsure whether Amendment 2was supposed to protect gay marriages or protect marriage from gays. I have the lurking suspicion that many well-intentioned but thunderously dim people may have voted in favor of the amendment, believing that it would “amend” the current situation wherein gay marriage is illegal in Florida. Okay, it’s kind of a stretch; I realize that. I’d like to think you’re right; it makes absolutely no sense to amend a Constitution to _deny_ rights, so these ballot initiatives are always confusing. Still, I gotta believe just as many anti-SSM people were confused too. > [@](#): > > Won’t it be tough to strike down a constitutional amendment as unconstitutional? State constitutions can provide more rights than the Federal Constitution, but not less. IOW, if a federal judge rules that SSM is a constitutional right (which I don’t think will happen, at least not in three years), this amendment and the other similar ones (CA Prop 8, NM Prop… something) will be struck. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/36 "2008-11-05T14:42:48Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Look, it’s understandable that people are upset about this, I’m personally OK with gay marriage, and/or the elimination of all ‘marriage’ as a ‘class’ with a legal definition, but like the presidential election, the people have spoken. Some with honest, decent, real beliefs in the one man+one woman=marriage concept, including President-Elect Obama. > > It didn’t happen this time, but on the other hand, there’s a black man heading for the white house in two short months. So what ? What happens to the many ordinary people screwed by this is more important than the success of one guy. And NO ONE who supported this is “decent”; it’s pure bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/37 "2008-11-05T14:51:39Z")
I wish this surprised me but it didn’t. I just do not understand why so many people feel the need to vote on something that has nothing to do with them. I did have a bit of hope that they wouldn’t get the 60% early in the evening but that didn’t last long. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/38 "2008-11-05T14:55:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So what ? What happens to the many ordinary people screwed by this is more important than the success of one guy. Actually, no, it’s not. FL Prop 2 is basically just a big “fuck you” to gays; it won’t affect more than a few dozen people. Winning the White House back, and with it, the hope that the Constitution can be restored and the excesses of the last eight years reversed, is much more important. I’m just pissed at the voters of my state for approving this initiative. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/39 "2008-11-05T15:08:22Z")
Can we throw Arkansas Initiative 1 into the mix? They voted that anyone who is outside a valid marriage cannot adopt or become a foster parent. This whole thing is freaking sad. [http://www.arelections.org/index.php?ac:show:contest\_statewide=1&elecid=181&contestid=5](http://www.arelections.org/index.php?ac:show:contest_statewide=1&elecid=181&contestid=5) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/40 "2008-11-05T15:11:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Worst case scenario, we’ve got a two year hiatus in gay marriage in California. Sucks, but hardly the end of the world. That’s what I’ve been telling my classes. Win or lose, it’s just going to be back on the ballot in 2 years. We lost this battle. The war goes on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223.md?page=3)