# I knew it wouldn't last, Florida. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223 "2008-11-05T06:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/41 "2008-11-05T15:14:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Actually, no, it’s not. FL Prop 2 is basically just a big “fuck you” to gays; it won’t affect more than a few dozen people. I meant in terms of ( what would be the term ) group politics, for lack of a better way of putting it. **buttonjockey308** made Obama’s victory to be a victory for black people, and it’s not; no more than Queen Victoria ascending the throne was a victory for women. It’s a victory for Obama, alone. The passing of this law, and the ones in California and Arizona are a blow against homosexuals as a group. To change the context slightly, would this be a net victory for blacks if Obama was elected but marriage between black people outlawed ? What’s more important to them as a group ? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/42 "2008-11-05T15:16:17Z")
It’s not that the election of Obama is a “victory for black people” in and of itself; it’s that it’s emblematic of a victory that already took place - the very fact that Obama _could_ become President. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/43 "2008-11-05T15:23:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > \ I’m just pissed at the voters of my state for approving this initiative. It wasn’t me!! I voted NO. (And so, much to my surprise, did my 91 year old, moderately religious mother. She’s probably the only one in the condo that did though, judging from the results.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/44 "2008-11-05T15:30:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So what ? What happens to the many ordinary people screwed by this is more important than the success of one guy. > > And NO ONE who supported this is “decent”; it’s pure bigotry. QFT Anyone who voted for this ban is scum. Pure hateful scum. No better then White Naitionalists. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/45 "2008-11-05T16:28:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They’ve always claimed this country. Yeah? Well, I claim it too. People didn’t understand why the hell I’d stay in the South and move back home to South Carolina - if you give up, if you leave and say fuck 'em all anyway, then you haven’t done your damned duty to help. I’ll stay and make it better - you just sit there in the corner and bitch. Hell, as of a few months ago we can _buy beer at the grocery store on Sunday_. If that ain’t change I don’t know what is. Baby steps. ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/46 "2008-11-05T16:42:54Z")
I voted NO, and so did my husband. However, I’m quite sure (and ashamed) that everyone else in our families voted yes. :smack: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/47 "2008-11-05T16:43:27Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That’s what I’ve been telling my classes. Win or lose, it’s just going to be back on the ballot in 2 years. We lost this battle. The war goes on. Well, the gay rights movement was inspired by the black civil rights movement, and given that we’ve finally got an African-American in the White House, change will surely come. Perhaps not in a year, perhaps not in two years, but just as a stone pushed down the side of a mountain gains momentum, so too will change. And I gotta say, we pushed one _helluva_ big rock down the mountain! I look forward to seeing the expressions on the nutters faces as the rock bears down on them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/48 "2008-11-05T20:34:32Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > No. Bigots don’t get to claim this country, fuck that. Actually, I’m not in your country, and I’m saving my money to head to Europe or Scandinavia because we’ve also just elected a so called left leaning PM who not only is standing up for the ‘true meaning of marriage’, but is about to enforce censorship of the internet. The bigots and idiots can have it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/49 "2008-11-05T21:43:19Z")
Which country is that? Not Canada, surely. We need somewhere to run to when the right returns to power. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/50 "2008-11-05T21:58:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Actually, no, it’s not. FL Prop 2 is basically just a big “fuck you” to gays; it won’t affect more than a few dozen people. > > Winning the White House back, and with it, the hope that the Constitution can be restored and the excesses of the last eight years reversed, is much more important. > > I’m just pissed at the voters of my state for approving this initiative. +1. My buzzkill to an otherwise wonderful day. It wasn’t enough for it to be simply illegal – it has to be unconstitutional too. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/51 "2008-11-05T22:04:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which country is that? Not Canada, surely. We need somewhere to run to when the right returns to power. 😉 Australia. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/52 "2008-11-05T22:07:13Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > sigh > > Well, at least we’re “protected” now. > > As to MOIDALIZE’s question, the new constitutional amendment also bans civil unions for everyone. That means that couples who aren’t married forfeit any rights or protections. Like the ability to visit a hospitalized loved one as “family”. If I understand it correctly, it could also theoretically prevent benefits from more progressive companies. > > I’m not gay, I don’t have any close friends in the state that are gay, but it just sucks that they had to enshrine a law that amounts to bigotry. This. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/53 "2008-11-05T22:14:12Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Look, it’s understandable that people are upset about this, I’m personally OK with gay marriage, and/or the elimination of all ‘marriage’ as a ‘class’ with a legal definition, but like the presidential election, the people have spoken. Some with honest, decent, real beliefs in the one man+one woman=marriage concept, including President-Elect Obama. This is the third thread I’ve seen you say that there are “honest, decent,” or “reasonable” reasons to support a gay marriage ban, but I’ve yet to see you actually suggest what some of those reasons might be. Do you actually know of any such reasons? Can you share them with us here? ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/54 "2008-11-05T22:17:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is the third thread I’ve seen you say that there are “honest, decent,” or “reasonable” reasons to support a gay marriage ban, but I’ve yet to see you actually suggest what some of those reasons might be. Do you actually know of any such reasons? Can you share them with us here? I haven’t seen it either, and I’ve discussed the topic with many: “Why are you against gay marriage?” “Because then they could adopt kids!” “What’s wrong with that?” “Then the kids will be gay!” “Assuming that were true, what’s so wrong with that?” “…it’s wrong!” “Who told you that?” “The Church.” I rest my case. ETA: I did manage to sway a few individuals, but obviously I didn’t try hard enough. I’m sorry, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/55 "2008-11-05T22:19:44Z")
> [@Queen\_Bruin](#): > > I haven’t seen it either, and I’ve discussed the topic with many: > > “Why are you against gay marriage?” > > “Because then they could adopt kids!” > > “What’s wrong with that?” > > “Then the kids will be gay!” I think you’d get much further asking why the kids would be gay just because the parents were gay. I mean, my mother likes show tunes, and I like Sepultura. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/56 "2008-11-05T22:22:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you’d get much further asking why the kids would be gay just because the parents were gay. I mean, my mother likes show tunes, and I like Sepultura. Or better yet, point out that if gay parents make gay kids, then straight parents should make straight kids. And yet, we still have all these gay people around, virtually all of them raised by straight parents… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/57 "2008-11-05T22:23:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Or better yet, point out that if gay parents make gay kids, then straight parents should make straight kids. And yet, we still have all these gay people around, virtually all of them raised by straight parents… They’d probably just come up with some retarded rationalization like, “well, their parents are secretly gay,” or something. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/58 "2008-11-05T22:25:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you’d get much further asking why the kids would be gay just because the parents were gay. I mean, my mother likes show tunes, and I like Sepultura. Oh, every time I have this argument (and I have it a lot, and have for several years), some study is usually alluded to that is never actually produced. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/59 "2008-11-05T22:26:43Z")
> [@Queen\_Bruin](#): > > Oh, every time I have this argument (and I have it a lot, and have for several years), some study is usually alluded to that is never actually produced. A study that demonstrates that people who aren’t allowed to have children turn the children they aren’t allowed to have gay? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223/60 "2008-11-05T22:27:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They’d probably just come up with some retarded rationalization like, “well, their parents are secretly gay,” or something. In the same way that your mother secretly likes Sepultura 😉 But really, knee jerk bigotry is always going to trump logic in an argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-knew-it-wouldnt-last-florida/471223.md?page=4)