# I know I shouldn't condone this high school ass-kicking... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991 "2005-09-16T16:37:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/81 "2005-09-17T15:11:46Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > I can give you that 100%, **SteveG1**. However, I get a little angry when people like **Diogenese** “infer” that there is no such thing as racism against whites, or that it’s acceptable. He never “inferred” any such thing. You inferred it (incorrectly, in my opinion) from his posts. His point was simply that the historical totality of white racism against blacks in this country gives an offensive t-shirt like the one described in the OP a different valence than a similarly offensive t-shirt worn by a black person. This is because, in the case described in the OP, the offensiveness of the t-shirt is backed up by centuries of slavery, oppression, brutality, and discrimination, making African Americans particularly sensitive to its message. This is not to say that racism against whites doesn’t exist, or that it’s acceptable. The two are completely different arguments and, while i can’t claim to speak for **Diogenes** , i’m pretty sure he never said that, and never even intended to imply\* it. - This, by the way, is the word you were looking for (instead of infer) in your previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/82 "2005-09-17T15:21:07Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > He never “inferred” any such thing. You inferred it (incorrectly, in my opinion) from his posts. No, he didn’t infer it, he fucking [said it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6570958&postcount=10) > [@](#): > > Waahh, the poor white people. Oh, how you’ve suffered. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/83 "2005-09-17T15:22:48Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Well, truthfully I read it this way, and should have posted it as such in the first place, as I also read a bit of hyperbole in the statement: > Nobody got murdered in the OP, so I think it’s a fair exclusion. > I’ll repeat: "In I’ve really got no idea what you’re saying in this post. You say you read hyperbole in my statement: > [@](#): > > I’m saying that people who go out of their way to express glee in brutal traditions of [racism] don’t get my sympathy when they get thumped. But you don’t explain where this hyperbole is. I meant that sentence literally. If you’re assuming that I don’t really mean what I say, then I can see how we may not be communicating effectively. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/84 "2005-09-17T15:31:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > This is not to say that racism against whites doesn’t exist, or that it’s acceptable. The two are completely different arguments and, while i can’t claim to speak for **Diogenes** , i’m pretty sure he never said that, and never even intended to imply\* it. > > - This, by the way, is the word you were looking for (instead of infer) in your previous post. Infer/Imply… bash me upside the head for pedantics > [@Diogenes](#): > > White people in America have never been an oppressed minority, have never endured anything like slavery or Jim Crow and have never been the target of REAL, not hypothetical lynchings and institutional racism. When it comes to emotional responses to racism, history is a giant factor **which cannot just be swept aside**. (bolding mine) Ever? My point about global/local racism stands. Reread it, please. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/85 "2005-09-17T15:33:40Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I’ve really got no idea what you’re saying in this post. You say you read hyperbole in my statement: > > But you don’t explain where this hyperbole is. I meant that sentence literally. If you’re assuming that I don’t really mean what I say, then I can see how we may not be communicating effectively. > > Daniel The hyperbole lies in the “racist murder” which I covered with “[racism]”. There has been “racist murder” by every race against every race. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/86 "2005-09-17T15:36:42Z")
In simpler terms, **Left Hand** , I see hyperbole in you saying you think it’s okay… I don’t believe you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/87 "2005-09-17T15:37:00Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > I can give you that 100%, **SteveG1**. However, I get a little angry when people like **Diogenese** “infer” that there is no such thing as racism against whites, or that it’s acceptable. … > > But I think the “glee” I’ve seen in this thread amounts to nothing but more racism. Racism crosses color lines. There are whites who hate blacks, blacks who hate whites, whites and blacks who hate Mexicans, etc etc etc. There will always be someone for someone else to hate. Sometimes the “glee” has nothing to do with race. I vividly remember growing up in New York, during the last big round of mob war. The Gallo brothers had just been gunned down by a rival. The feeling among many Italians was one of quiet acceptance that these psychos (the one was called Crazy Joe for a reason) had been taken down, and it was felt to be especially fitting that one of their own “kind” (other mobsters) had done it. There was no racism there, it was a feeling of “they got what they asked for”. It’s wrong, but again it’s simple human nature. We all have a bit of it in us, no matter how loudly we deny it. It drives the whole action movie industry. We feel good when John Wayne or Dirty Harry or Charles Bronson blasts the bad guy. Movies are only make believe, but they are catering to the same basic instinct. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/88 "2005-09-17T15:40:17Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > In simpler terms, **Left Hand** , I see hyperbole in you saying you think it’s okay… > > I don’t believe you. Ugh that came out wrong again. Hyperbole=okay to whoop somebody’s ass ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/89 "2005-09-17T15:42:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Sometimes the “glee” has nothing to do with race. Granted. But this time it did. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/90 "2005-09-17T15:44:22Z")
**Diogenes** , given the thread title, you knew you were wrong, and I think you really wanted people to correct you and articulate such rationally, in such a manner as to change your feelings. I failed. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/91 "2005-09-17T15:47:26Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > The idiot with the shirt won’t last long in the military with attitudes like that. > > I wouldn’t be at all surprised if his deferred entry was invalidated as a result of this stupid stunt. What Marine Corps are you talking about? Racism is virulently alive and well in the U.S. military. He will most likely fall in with a group just like him and behave in even more unacceptable ways when out on liberty with them. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/92 "2005-09-17T15:48:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sometimes the “glee” has nothing to do with race. Sometimes it does > [@](#): > > We all have a bit of it in us, no matter how loudly we deny it. Doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/93 "2005-09-17T15:50:31Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > No, he didn’t infer it, he fucking [said it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6570958&postcount=10) To “infer” something means to draw a conclusion. The _istener_ infers, the speaker _implies_. In this case you inferred something that I did not imply. The fact that I was ridiculing what I thought was an overreaction to some perceived anti-white remarks (the post you quoted from was about the Kanye West flap) does not amount to a statement that anti-white racism cannot exist. I just think that the potential for white people in America being harmed by it are far less significant than for any other group. Also, Kanye West did not endorse or laugh at violence or hate crimes against whites. He said he didn’t like it when white people try to act black. I dont like it either. It looks stupid. It makes me cringe when I see it. YMMV, but I don’t think that telling white people not to say “homie” is in any way comparable to laughing at murder. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/94 "2005-09-17T15:54:28Z")
**Eluesis** , let me see if I understand what you’re saying: You’re saying that in the OP, nobody got murdered, so my reference to “brutal traditions of racist murder” was hyperbolic; and that I was taking glee in a brutal tradition of racism. is this correct? If so, you’re doubly missing the point. 1. First, I said that “people who go out of their way to express glee in brutal traditions of racist murder don’t get my sympathy when they get thumped.” I meant just that. The asshole kid in the story went out of his way by buying a t-shirt, and wearing it to school: these were acts, not failures of action. By wearing a “comic” t-shirt, he was expressing glee. He was expressing glee in Klan lynchings, which qualifies as a “brutal tradition of racist murder.” There was no hyperbole there at all. I didn’t say that the white kid had murdered anyone, merely that he’d expressed glee in a brutal tradition of murder. In contrast, I’m not expressing glee in a brutal tradition of racist murder. I’m expressing a bit of glee in a single act of a guy getting knocked in the head. No tradition; no murder. You seem to be claiming that the black guy who thumped the white guy was racist. Are you making this claim? If so, what evidence do you have that this claim is true? Remember, our evidence that the white kid is racist is that: 1. He was wearing a t-shirt glorifying the Klan; and 2. He said that he hates black people. We’re not talking about theories of social racism here. We’re talking about concrete evidence of a specific case of racism. If you want to show that the black kid in the story is racist, it is incumbent on you to offer your evidence. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/95 "2005-09-17T15:59:59Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > **Diogenes** , given the thread title, you knew you were wrong, and I think you really wanted people to correct you and articulate such rationally, in such a manner as to change your feelings. > It failed. Nice try, Kreskin, but you’re wrong. I actually thought I would get a bunch of lectures about how wrong I was. That’s why I tried to make it clear in the OP that I wasn’t endorsing the action but just confessing to taking some satisfaction in it. I think most people in this thread understood the ambivalence. That was the most I was hoping for. FTR, If anyone had said it should have been LEGAL to beat that kid down, i would have strenuously disagreed with them. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/96 "2005-09-17T16:10:57Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Nice try, Kreskin, but you’re wrong. I actually thought I would get a bunch of lectures about how wrong I was. That’s why I tried to make it clear in the OP that I wasn’t endorsing the action but just confessing to taking some satisfaction in it. I think most people in this thread understood the ambivalence. That was the most I was hoping for. Yeah, that’s why you’re the asshole. Sounds remarkably like trolling. OH, BTW: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > To “infer” something means to draw a conclusion. The _istener_ infers, the speaker _implies_. > [@Eleusis](#): > > Infer/Imply… bash me upside the head for pedantics Some other pedant already corrected me, but thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/97 "2005-09-17T16:16:02Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > No, he didn’t infer it, he fucking [said it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6570958&postcount=10) You’re just embarrassing yourself now. You are offering as evidence something that completely fails to support your position. That statement by **Diogenes** does not constitute an assertion that racism against whites cannot exist, or that it is acceptable, which is the allegation that you made. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/98 "2005-09-17T16:18:45Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Yeah, that’s why you’re the asshole. Sounds remarkably like trolling. Not to anyone with a single whit of common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/99 "2005-09-17T16:23:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You’re just embarrassing yourself now. > > You are offering as evidence something that completely fails to support your position. That statement by **Diogenes** does not constitute an assertion that racism against whites cannot exist, or that it is acceptable, which is the allegation that you made. Maybe _that one_ doesn’t, but we all know how he thinks. And I got your common sense hanging low **Colibri**. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/100 "2005-09-17T16:25:13Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > And don’t misquote me you asshole. > > Who said anything about “Okay if he wore it?” I said “Okay if he got jumped and beat down for it”. > > That’s 90% of my point Einstein. I did not mean to misconstrue your point. I apologize for having inadvertently done so. > [@](#): > > Yes. I want to call all the black people I meet, including my black friends who outnumbered the white people at my house tonight, NIGGERS. > > And minus thirty cool points to the first person who insinuates that by claiming I have black friends I must be a racist. No, but it looks like you are trying to claim some authority by reference to having African American friends. Whether you are trying to excuse your behavior with such a reference is less clear. > [@](#): > > FUCK YOU you asshole what a dickheaded assumption. And fuck you for putting an assumption in my mouth. The point you seem to repeatedly be missing is that in both cases, there is a history behind white racism that simply makes it presently of a different magnitude than African American racism. Sorry, but while both are bad, the history of racism by whites towards African Americans means that you will always look worse using racial slurs or wearing racially hateful t-shirts than African Americans will. > [@](#): > > Really? It has to be lynchings or car draggings to make murder acceptable evidence of racism in your dim world view? > > Piss on that. > > By your rationality another 100,000 innocents would have to be killed to “even the score”. I’m quite sure I never said any such thing (and don’t misquote me, asshole). I’m not sure if you are desperate or stupid, but try to hone in on a point here, please. > [@](#): > > You obviously ignored my post about local vs global racism. I’m pretty sure it is irrelevant, if it even has merit to begin with. > [@](#): > > Sigh. That was a funny song. Like some other songs were funny too. A funny song which MAKES FUCKING FUN OF RACISM FOR THE POINT OF TRYING TO KILL IT OFF does not now, and will never help your stupid ignorant point. Actually, it does, because it illustrates that racially charged comments are dependent up on the context (the speaker, the audience, the purpose, and so forth), and are not simply all equivalent. > [@](#): > > Our scholars have studied your post and found it to be totally without merit. I’m a bit surprised that you know any. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991.md?page=6)