# I know I shouldn't condone this high school ass-kicking... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991 "2005-09-16T16:37:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/101 "2005-09-17T16:37:28Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Maybe _that one_ doesn’t, but we all know how he thinks. I see. So you allege something about **Diogenes**. Then, when it’s pointed out that your allegations are crap, you offer as “evidence” something that completely fails to support your assertion. Then, when _that_ idiocy is pointed out to you, your only resort is to assert that “we all know how he thinks.” You’re a master of rational debate. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/102 "2005-09-17T16:39:53Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > And I got your common sense hanging low **Colibri**. Brilliant riposte. I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/103 "2005-09-17T16:53:35Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > For the record, and maybe in contradiction to everything I’ve posted, I’d have probably kicked the guy’s ass myself, hopefully before any black people saw it, for multiple reasons. > > It was stupid and sick. > > But I think the “glee” I’ve seen in this thread amounts to nothing but more racism. This astonishes me. I would NOT have kicked the guy’s ass. I think it’d be wrong to do so. I’m glad the guy got his ass kicked, but I’m not glad that the guy kicked his ass: the former is karmic justice, the latter is injustice. And yet you, who say that you would have committed violence against someone in response to their exercising of free speech, dare to lecture those of us who say that committing such violence is wrong, because we are glad that the shirt-guy got thumped. I just don’t see how you’re in any position to lecture us. However, you seem to be descending into content-free insults, so maybe I should stop looking for rhyme or reason. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/104 "2005-09-17T17:03:48Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Sometimes it does > Doesn’t make it right. Of course it isn’t right. It is something we all have to learn to recognize and control. Everyone, no matter how good and kind they are, has at least one time in their life wanted to beat the crap out of someone else. Or, there was a very strong drive to “look the other way” while someone else did it. Right or wrong, it is a part of us all, to some extent. I freely admit I felt a bit of “he did it to himself”. I won’t excuse it, it just is. ---
**Author:** ![Foaming\_Cleanser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Foaming\_Cleanser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foaming_Cleanser)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/105 "2005-09-17T17:24:12Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Infer/Imply… bash me upside the head for pedantics The dictionary is your friend. The chimp with the T-shirt was merely imitating this [alpha ape](http://www.witz.org/images/harrynazi.jpg). I doubt neither can read. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/106 "2005-09-17T18:04:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > This is not an empty point. White people in America have never been an oppressed minority, have never endured anything like slavery or Jim Crow and have never been the target of REAL, not hypothetical lynchings and institutional racism. When it comes to emotional responses to racism, history is a giant factor which cannot just be swept aside. A “Kill Whiey” shirt and a shirt depicting black men being dragged behind a car are not symmetrical examples because the HISTORIES are not symmetrical. **Diogenes** , I’m speaking here in the spirit of debate. I don’t disagree with the overall point you’re making that nothing that’s happened to white minorities has been as long-lived or as virulent _over time_ as the racism that has affected African Americans. However, I hate the idea that nothing that has happened to any white minority has been, _in specific instances_, as violent, viscious or wrong as has happened to African Americans. At various points in US history the Irish, Jews, Italians, Germans and many other “white” ethnic minorities have faced incidents as violent and demeaning as have been suffered by African Americans. During the heyday of the KKK in the 1920’s they recruited by demonizing Catholicism as much as they did by demonizing African Americans. While I am arguing that there is no single example of hatred that has fallen only upon African Americans, never visited to members of any “white” minorities, that doesn’t change your basic point: The combined history of racism against African Americans does elevate it to a different level. Or, to put it another way, racism isn’t simply a black and white issue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/107 "2005-09-17T18:05:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not to anyone with a single whit of common sense. And there’s your problem. **Eleusis** , you’re arguing a stupid point and doing a bad job of it. I don’t think it’s just or proper that this racist got smacked around a little. I think it’s _satisfying_, as it seems most of the posters do. It shouldn’t be government policy or the socially acceptable response to a dumbass shirt like this. But sometimes people deserve what they get. I think you’re the only one who can imagine what the fuck the kid’s whiteness has to do with this. Make up a good example and see if it proves your point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/108 "2005-09-17T18:26:11Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > **Diogenes** , I’m speaking here in the spirit of debate. I don’t disagree with the overall point you’re making that nothing that’s happened to white minorities has been as long-lived or as virulent _over time_ as the racism that has affected African Americans. > > However, I hate the idea that nothing that has happened to any white minority has been, _in specific instances_, as violent, viscious or wrong as has happened to African Americans. At various points in US history the Irish, Jews, Italians, Germans and many other “white” ethnic minorities have faced incidents as violent and demeaning as have been suffered by African Americans. During the heyday of the KKK in the 1920’s they recruited by demonizing Catholicism as much as they did by demonizing African Americans. None of these are examples of people being persecuted because they were _white_, and in every case, they were being persecuted _other white people_. I’ll say again, white people have never been a persecuted minority in the US. There are some groups of white who have been persecuted for _other_ reasons than skin color, but only by other whites. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/109 "2005-09-17T18:42:56Z")
Keep trying **DTC** sooner or later, it’ll click like a light-bulb going off and they’ll get it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/110 "2005-09-17T19:37:00Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > None of these are examples of people being persecuted because they were _white_, and in every case, they were being persecuted _other white people_. Nitpick: in most of these cases they were being persecuted precisely because they were NOT white. It’s incorrect to say they were persecuted by other white people: rather, they were simply another group of nonwhite people being persecuted by white people. Saying that white people have never been a persecuted minority is therefore misleading, since the members of the group of “white people” has been shifting and fluid. Irish folks and Italian folks have been persecuted minorities, persecuted on account of their race; if their race wasn’t white at the time, I’m not sure of the significance of that. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/111 "2005-09-17T20:03:03Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Yeah, that’s why you’re the asshole. Sounds remarkably like trolling. Funny, that’s exactly what I was thinking while reading your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/112 "2005-09-17T20:31:31Z")
Blacks, Native Americans, most Asian groups and other nonwhites have not, by circumstance and design, had the economic, legal and political clout to persecute whites in America. White immigrants were persecuted by other whites because of the economic threat they posed compteting for pre-inustrial and industrial labor, and their differing customs, languages and religions were usually the justifications for that economic persecution. It may come as surprise to some people here that I don’t condone the ass-kicking either, for the inexcusable fact that black kid was stupid enough to execute the beatdown of a little racist bigot in front of witnesses. In my day, we were smart enough to go three or four blocks off-campus and settle our differences uninterrupted! Kids these days. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/113 "2005-09-17T20:44:37Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Blacks, Native Americans, most Asian groups and other nonwhites have not, by circumstance and design, had the economic, legal and political clout to persecute whites in America. In a sense, you’re very right: **as groups** , the White Group hasn’t suffered at the hands of the Black Group. The problem is that groups don’t experience suffering: individuals do. And as individuals, many, many individuals with white skin have suffered at the hands of many, many individuals with black skin. They’ve even suffered because of their skin color. This isn’t to deny that it’s important to look at institutional racism, or racist traditions, or the ability to inflict emotional trauma on someone by referring to a hideous racist tradition in a gleeful fashion. Rather, I want to be clear that it **is** possible, according to one perfectly valid definition of racism, for a person who’s black to act in a racist fashion against a person who is white. According to another perfectly valid defintion of racism, one group’s racism is more significant. If we argue back and forth without clarifying which definition we’re using, we’ll just end up calling each other assholes. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/114 "2005-09-17T20:45:58Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Funny, that’s exactly what I was thinking while reading your posts. OK, enough with the discussion about whose posts remind whom of trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/115 "2005-09-17T20:58:59Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > In a sense, you’re very right: **as groups** , the White Group hasn’t suffered at the hands of the Black Group. My point was more at: “In America, the White Group hasn’t suffered at the hands of _anybody_ except other whites because economically, legally and politically they deliberately stacked the deck in their favor.” Saying “groups don’t experience suffering” sounds more than a bit disingenuous to me, sorry. I get where you’re coming from and all but… nah. Suffering is not really an either/or thing with groups or individuals, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/116 "2005-09-17T21:48:23Z")
> [@](#): > > **DtC** : There are some groups of white who have been persecuted for other reasons than skin color, but only by other whites. White females haven’t been treated like second class citizens by many Black males? You are blind. > [@](#): > > White people in America have never been an oppressed minority, have never endured anything like slavery or Jim Crow and have never been the target of REAL, not hypothetical lynchings and institutional racism. But until more recent times, about half of the white population did know what it was like to be treated as subservient to the other half. I am not trying to change the subject, but white female Americans and white male Americans have different histories. As for the topic of the OP, I take _no_ satisfaction in physical violence but I do understand those who don’t flinch too much at the karma of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991/117 "2005-09-17T21:58:41Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > White females haven’t been treated like second class citizens by many Black males? You are blind. Cite? How about a cite for black males enslaving white women or getting discrimatory laws passed? How about a cite for black men lynching white women? What the fuck are you fucking talking about? > [@](#): > > But until more recent times, about half of the white population did know what it was like to be treated as subservient to the other half. I am not trying to change the subject, but white female Americans and white male Americans have different histories. Men and women have different histories, but color has nothing to do with it. Women have historically been oppressed and victimized by men but not because of skin color. And until about 40 years ago, the average white woman still had more power than the average black male. Let me know if you can find a case of a white woman being lynched for whistling at a black man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-i-shouldnt-condone-this-high-school-ass-kicking/321991.md?page=5)