# I know you IT guys think us end users are idiots. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292 "2007-12-26T17:10:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/101 "2008-01-04T11:56:54Z")
Wow, this thread is still active. Know what else is still active? My computer problem. > [@](#): > > But hasn’t this thread shown you that yes, there are many people who do not know how to troubleshoot their way out of a paperbag but often will insist that YES THEY HAVE DONE THAT ALREADY even though they haven’t? Nope, this thread has not shown me this at all. It has shown me that tech people hate end users because their jobs suck and the people over them are mindless drones and that I, as an end user, must put up with all the shit handed out by the help desk because of something someone else did to them. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/102 "2008-01-04T12:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Wow, this thread is still active. Know what else is still active? My computer problem. Nope, this thread has not shown me this at all. It has shown me that tech people hate end users because their jobs suck and the people over them are mindless drones and that I, as an end user, must put up with all the shit handed out by the help desk because of something someone else did to them. [/QUOTE] Projecting YOUR issue, much? :rolleyes: No one said you had a great tech and you were at fault. In fact, I believe that many help desk and IT people said “wow, that really sucks”. But I guess all the anecdotes people gave about people lying, insisting they did steps that they didn’t, insisting that there is no error message when there is, that they didn’t install any software when they did\* mean nothing. Again, so you can understand: No one is saying that you had a great tech. No one is saying that YOU were lying. No one is saying that YOU were stupid. What they ARE saying is that there ARE people who DO lie. They were just answering the goddamned question you asked in your OP. Sorry you didn’t like the answer. - and you find these things out as the damn anecdotes tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/103 "2008-01-04T13:27:25Z")
[QUOTE=zweisamkeit] Projecting YOUR issue, much? :rolleyes: No one said you had a great tech and you were at fault. In fact, I believe that many help desk and IT people said “wow, that really sucks”. But I guess all the anecdotes people gave about people lying, insisting they did steps that they didn’t, insisting that there is no error message when there is, that they didn’t install any software when they did\* mean nothing. Again, so you can understand: No one is saying that you had a great tech. No one is saying that YOU were lying. No one is saying that YOU were stupid. What they ARE saying is that there ARE people who DO lie. They were just answering the goddamned question you asked in your OP. Sorry you didn’t like the answer. - and you find these things out as the damn anecdotes tell you. [/QUOTE] Excuse me? This whole thread is FULL of help desk people explaining WHY my service was so bad and their explanations are as follows: End users are stupid. End users are liars. End users need to take classes to make help desk people’s jobs easier. Help desk people have the worst jobs ever and that’s why the people who call them get shit. It DOES have to do with MY fucking OP. It’s my OP, how in the hell is it NOT about the service I received? And while I agree that people don’t know how to use their computers and it would make everyone’s life a little easier if they all did, it doesn’t change the fact that this thread ABOUT MY FUCKING COMPUTER PROBLEM AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH TECH PEOPLE ONLY PROVES MY GODDAMNED POINT! So take your size 4 font and ram it up your motherboard. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/104 "2008-01-04T13:37:35Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] … So take your size 4 font and ram it up your motherboard. [/QUOTE] Byte me. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/105 "2008-01-04T13:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Wow, this thread is still active. Know what else is still active? My computer problem. Nope, this thread has not shown me this at all. It has shown me that tech people hate end users because their jobs suck and the people over them are mindless drones and that I, as an end user, must put up with all the shit handed out by the help desk because of something someone else did to them. [/QUOTE] I don’t think you can pinpoint the reason that help desk people are typically pretty bad to “because their jobs suck and the people over them are mindless drones.” Again, what you, 99% of the time, deal with on the help desk are either very junior (not tech savvy yet, but often arrogant) people who are moving up pretty soon, idiots who can only read scripts, or people who just don’t give a fuck whether or not your problem is fixed. It’s unfortunate for IT departments that they’re looked at negatively solely due to the exposure of their weakest group. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/106 "2008-01-04T13:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] I don’t think you can pinpoint the reason that help desk people are typically pretty bad to “because their jobs suck and the people over them are mindless drones.” Again, what you, 99% of the time, deal with on the help desk are either very junior (not tech savvy yet, but often arrogant) people who are moving up pretty soon, idiots who can only read scripts, or people who just don’t give a fuck whether or not your problem is fixed. It’s unfortunate for IT departments that they’re looked at negatively solely due to the exposure of their weakest group. [/QUOTE] As I said earlier, I can sympathize. I also agree with an upthread poster that a very large part of the problem is that IT guys and users speak a different language which leads to even more frustration on both ends. What pissed me off and lead to the above quote was **zweisamkeit** telling another upset end user that what this thread shows is that end users are stupid liars after all. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/107 "2008-01-04T14:15:33Z")
[QUOTE=amarinth] See, in my conversations, the last line is: _Them: still broken._ Does that never happen to you? When it does, is the person needing second level support happy at having spent time getting to know you better and connecting on a personal level? [/QUOTE] What used to chap my hide was when the conversation went like: Me: I can’t log into VPN, I have rebooted, I have checked my internet connection, I can access CNN The Straight Dope and other websites. Is there a problem with the VPN? Them: Reboot your computer Me: I have done that, but if you have nothing better to do, sure I’ll do it again. Is there a problem with the VPN? Them: no. Me: (several minutes later) OK, I have rebooted, and I still can’t log into VPN Them: It must be your internet connection Me: Well, I can access CNN The Straight Dope and other websites. Oh, look Ford’s stock price is down another 50 cents. Them, go look at setting XYZ. Is it 123 or 456? Me: It’s 123 Them: change it to 456 Me: :dubious: What is supposed to be? Them: Not sure, sometimes 123 works, sometimes 456 works. Me: Have you ever had a case where 123 used to work and suddenly stopped? (meanwhile I am writing everything down, so I can go back and unfuck my computer settings) Them: How’s the weather where you are? ::: 20 minutes passes::: Them: Oh it looks like the VPN server is down, try again later. Me: :smack: Or my favorite: Hi I am a remote user using VPN, I can’t log in ::: Fast forward trough 30 minutes of pure crap. None of which helped::: Them: You need someone to reset your password. They have to be behind the firewall connected to the intranet to do it. Me: You are behind the firewall, go ahead and reset it Them: We aren’t allowed to do that. Get your co-worker to do it. Me: I am in British Columbia in a little tiny building all by myself. I have no co-workers here. Them: Just get the person in the next cubicle to do it Me: What part of I am in a building all by myself wasn’t clear? You are the help desk, you are behind the firewall, fix it. Them: No we don’t do that. Just get one of your co-workers to do it. ::: Rick bangs head on desk, because it is so much less painful::: Me: Sigh, OK, you win I will call a co-worker in New Jersey and have them do this, do you have an exact set of instructions of what they are to do\> Them: Yes I e mailed them to you Me: and since I can’t access my e mail, just how am I supposed to get them? Them: :smack: Me: Would you like my personal e mail address? Them: OK Bottom line I wound up with my group VP on the phone, to try and reset my password. Guess what? That didn’t fix it. Second guess what? When a vice president calls the Idiots with Technology department it gets sent to 2nd level. The second level guy fixed it in about 3 minutes. (problem was on their end, not my machine) I have a good friend that is in field tech support. I used to call her and tell her my horror stories of tech support. She would laugh her ass off at my IT stories. She told me, that the City of LA as bad as it was, is about 200% better than what I put up with. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/108 "2008-01-04T14:51:16Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] It DOES have to do with MY fucking OP. It’s my OP, how in the hell is it NOT about the service I received? [/QUOTE] I don’t know how others feel about it, but I don’t view the original poster as the hegemon of a thread. A thread – especially ones in forums like the Pit or MPISMS – are conversations with many participants and it’s perfectly reasonable for a conversation to move into related topics. If you’re taking every comment as an evaluation of your personal feelings about your specific problem, I think you’re exercising an inappropriate degree of ownership over this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/109 "2008-01-04T14:57:39Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I don’t know how others feel about it, but I don’t view the original poster as the hegemon of a thread. A thread – especially ones in forums like the Pit or MPISMS – are conversations with many participants and it’s perfectly reasonable for a conversation to move into related topics. If you’re taking every comment as an evaluation of your personal feelings about your specific problem, I think you’re exercising an inappropriate degree of ownership over this thread. [/QUOTE] Nope, not doing that. But I do take exception to a poster telling me what my OP is about and taking me to task for misinterpreting my very own thread, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/110 "2008-01-04T15:03:04Z")
Update! Kevin, our usual on site guy, is still on vacation but we’ve got a replacement on site guy today. Showed him the problem. “Oh wow! That really is happening. It’s not supposed to.” Still no idea why it’s happening or how to fix it, however. At least IT knows I’m not a crazy person who is making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/111 "2008-01-04T16:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Update! Kevin, our usual on site guy, is still on vacation but we’ve got a replacement on site guy today. Showed him the problem. “Oh wow! That really is happening. It’s not supposed to.” Still no idea why it’s happening or how to fix it, however. At least IT knows I’m not a crazy person who is making shit up. [/QUOTE] **Biggirl** , while the IT support you’ve been receiving up until now sucks balls, I have to say that you’re taking that reaction a little too personally. I don’t work in tech support (thank god!), but I am a programmer. It’s not uncommon for me to have the same exact response as the quote above when being shown some whacked out issue by a CS associate. We’re in the guts of the code every day, so we know when the program you’re running isn’t even remotely connected to something that throws the error you’re getting. Think about the response you’d get if you went to a mechanic and said that every time you shifted gear your cell phone lost service. Or if you went to a doctor and said that sometimes when you work in one cube you have heart palpatations but when you work in the cube next door you’re fine. Sceptiscism is going to be the first response you get, even though they probably won’t assume that you’re deliberately making shit up. They’ll just think that you’re mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/112 "2008-01-04T16:19:59Z")
[QUOTE=Risha] **Biggirl** , while the IT support you’ve been receiving up until now sucks balls, I have to say that you’re taking that reaction a little too personally. I don’t work in tech support (thank god!), but I am a programmer. It’s not uncommon for me to have the same exact response as the quote above when being shown some whacked out issue by a CS associate. We’re in the guts of the code every day, so we know when the program you’re running isn’t even remotely connected to something that throws the error you’re getting. Think about the response you’d get if you went to a mechanic and said that every time you shifted gear your cell phone lost service. Or if you went to a doctor and said that sometimes when you work in one cube you have heart palpatations but when you work in the cube next door you’re fine. Sceptiscism is going to be the first response you get, even though they probably won’t assume that you’re deliberately making shit up. They’ll just think that you’re mistaken. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. But after a week of “That’s impossible” and “Are you sure?” and the last bit “Call again when it happens” and then them not answering the phone when I call them. . . that little bit of vindication felt good. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/113 "2008-01-05T01:53:38Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Excuse me? This whole thread is FULL of help desk people explaining WHY my service was so bad and their explanations are as follows: End users are stupid. End users are liars. End users need to take classes to make help desk people’s jobs easier. Help desk people have the worst jobs ever and that’s why the people who call them get shit. It DOES have to do with MY fucking OP. It’s my OP, how in the hell is it NOT about the service I received? And while I agree that people don’t know how to use their computers and it would make everyone’s life a little easier if they all did, it doesn’t change the fact that this thread ABOUT MY FUCKING COMPUTER PROBLEM AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH TECH PEOPLE ONLY PROVES MY GODDAMNED POINT! So take your size 4 font and ram it up your motherboard. [/QUOTE] Cram your bullshit up your goddamned ass. > [@](#): > > Do IT guys hear made-up tech problems all day long? That’s what you put at the end of your fucking OP. You ASKED and people answered. That question means YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM ISN’T THE SOLE SUBJECT OF THE GODDAMNED THREAD. If you didn’t want people to be ever so rude and _answer the question you asked_ (the NERVE of them), then don’t fucking ask it. And if you do, don’t get fucking pissed that 99% of people who posted apparently didn’t know that they weren’t supposed to answer that question. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/114 "2008-01-07T03:01:10Z")
[QUOTE=amarinth] See, in my conversations, the last line is: _Them: still broken._ Does that never happen to you? When it does, is the person needing second level support happy at having spent time getting to know you better and connecting on a personal level? [/QUOTE] It sure does. Then we send the ticket up to the next level. **zweisamkeit** is right. We _have_ to go through the basic steps.If we don’t, we will have to answer to someone. Here is the basic disconnect, I think. _95% of the time, these basic steps resolve the problem_. For some reason, some people have a greater share of problems. No blame in that. It just happens. Sometimes someone will get a machine with lurking problems that rear their heads at the worst time. (Murphy was an IT guy) Some folks just have bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292/115 "2008-01-07T04:02:32Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] It sure does. Then we send the ticket up to the next level. **zweisamkeit** is right. We _have_ to go through the basic steps.If we don’t, we will have to answer to someone. Here is the basic disconnect, I think. _95% of the time, these basic steps resolve the problem_ [/QUOTE] Yes, I agree - which is why I’ve gone through those basic steps all on my own 95% of the time, and tech support never hears that there was a thing wrong with my machine. By the time I’m on the phone, I’ve hit the 5%. At that point, I don’t want to go through all of the basic steps again (I’ve crossed and cross-checked my work. I’ve done everything I possibly can to avoid using support because using support is generally unpleasant.) I want the problem fixed. And past experience with questionable support (not your company, I’m sure) has taught me that I’m not going to get the problem fixed with anyone on first tier support. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-know-you-it-guys-think-us-end-users-are-idiots/431292.md?page=5)