# I like that the light is shining on the racists. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337 "2009-07-17T14:21:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/61 "2009-07-17T18:49:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Could it be that until the early sixties most women were homemakers, and the raising of children and such meant many, many fewer women were getting the education and experience to make them merit consideration? It wasn’t like women had any choice about that. They weren’t even allowed to vote until 1920. Maybe entrenched institutional sexism had something to do ith it? Or do you think all women just voluntarily chose to be domestic slaves for a couple of hundred years? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/62 "2009-07-17T18:52:42Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > And they were _poor_. Really, really poor. They were also entering the United States in great waves, year after year. You forgot the bit where they were slaves, too. Or rather, ‘permanently indentured servants.’ ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/63 "2009-07-17T18:55:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How is that in any way racist? To quote someone in this thread, (can’t remember who) “the largest group that was not white was subjugated—first held in slavery and then held down through laws and policies that made it impossible for any one of them to have achieved such a high office” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/64 "2009-07-17T18:59:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It sounds like they would hope that that a wise white man with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a woman who hasn’t lived that life. In a way I think it’s… not quite the opposite of that, but just an extension of the assumption that (straight) white American men are the standard, the default from which everyone else strays through their skin color, gender, country of origin. They’ve not only got a rich history, they’ve got _the_ history, and the final say, and anyone who doesn’t fit in can’t help but be colored by prejudice and therefore are unable to be objective. (Which is incredibly racist for everyone involved including white American men getting lumped together). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/65 "2009-07-17T19:49:48Z")
**Cat Fight** , you’ve nailed it. White male Protestant is the default norm from which all others deviate to a greater or lesser degree. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/66 "2009-07-17T20:00:28Z")
> [@miamouse](#): > > To quote someone in this thread, (can’t remember who) “the largest group that was not white was subjugated—first held in slavery and then held down through laws and policies that made it impossible for any one of them to have achieved such a high office” The question is not whether the U.S. was racist, its whether Buchanan’s answer was racist. Or the one I offered, from which you extracted my quote. Do you care to answer that? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/67 "2009-07-17T20:35:50Z")
Buchanan’s answer was racist because his rationalization is that Supreme Court Justices were mostly white and not black because white’s built this country, dabgumit. In truth, whites \*used \*blacks to build this country. If you just gloss over that and say, well, gosh, what could we do, there just weren’t enough black people doing enough important things back then … it comes off as racist. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/68 "2009-07-17T20:44:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It sounds like they would hope that that a wise white man with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a woman who hasn’t lived that life. > > Which is obviously crazy talk, and racist and sexist to boot. Wasn’t the original quote about why diversity was good, not one particular group over everyone else? I mean, had the general opinion at the time been that white men were the best bet because people with their experiences just didn’t have much say or influence, then it’d probably be a fair comparison. Seems like a pretty disturbing comparison, in all honesty. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/69 "2009-07-17T20:50:41Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Buchanan’s answer was racist because his rationalization is that Supreme Court Justices were mostly white and not black because white’s built this country, dabgumit. In truth, whites \*used \*blacks to build this country. If you just gloss over that and say, well, gosh, what could we do, there just weren’t enough black people doing enough important things back then … it comes off as racist. In his answer he acknowledged that blacks were discriminated against. The answer I gave above as to why there were all white presidents drew this out more. So, if he would have done that, as I did, would he then, in your opinion, escape the racist badge? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/70 "2009-07-17T20:55:29Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Wasn’t the original quote about why diversity was good, not one particular group over everyone else? No, not AFAICT. The original quote was Sotomayor first mentioning that Sandra Day O’Connor said that a wise man and a wise woman would come to the same conclusion from the same facts. Sotomayor said that she (Sotomayor) did not believe that this was true - first because there was no such universal concept as “wise” and second because Latina women would be liable to do better than someone who did not have the rich experience of being a Latina. Although it wasn’t quite “one group over everyone else”, just “Latinas are better than white men”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/71 "2009-07-17T21:00:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, not AFAICT. The original quote was Sotomayor first mentioning that Sandra Day O’Connor said that a wise man and a wise woman would come to the same conclusion from the same facts. Sotomayor said that she (Sotomayor) did not believe that this was true - first because there was no such universal concept as “wise” and second because Latina women would be liable to do better than someone who did not have the rich experience of being a Latina. Could you link me to the source you’re using? I’ve seen a lot of the quote itself but not much of the original context of it. Edit; Never mind, found it myself, and yes, it’s either as you say or it’s terribly badly put. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/72 "2009-07-17T21:25:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you sure you haven’t confused **magellan** with someone else, like maybe **LonesomePolecat**? I’ve never noticed any racism in anything **magellan** has posted. Nope, I mean **mags**. He’s the one who says: 1.Hispanics are predisposed to criminality. 2.Blacks disdain education and are generally the stupider race. 3.We should establish an American culture so that when those very few immigrants who we let migrate come in here, there will be an American culture that they can adopt and shed those other, not nearly as nice, cultures. Mostly by speaking English, motherfucker. If need be, he would allow ten thousand or so Messicans into the US to pick our lettuce and do other menial jobs, just as long as they go back when we’re through with them. That’s our mags. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/73 "2009-07-17T21:37:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Actually, it was built by black slaves. White people just watched. Oh come on now, plenty of white indentured workers, and chinese, etc. That’s how Pat’s people got in. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/74 "2009-07-17T21:42:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > There are like, nine hundred threads about racism going on right now…there comes a point when it’s just overkill. Nobody likes racism. Pitting it is pointless; it’s like pitting an earthquake. How are Earthquakes like ethnic minorities? They both drive down property values! OOOHHHH!!! ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/75 "2009-07-17T21:52:24Z")
Originally spewed by **Pat Buchanan** > [@](#): > > “White men were 100% of the people that wrote the Constitution, 100% of the people that signed the Declaration of Independence, 100% of the people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, probably close to 100% of the people who died at Normandy” I think Pat has a point. I mean who can forget Thomas Jefferson pleading in vain for some black folks to step up and help write the Declaration of Independence? But nooooooo, they were too busy picking his tobacco and having his offspring. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/76 "2009-07-17T21:52:32Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Reminder: > [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) > > No warning issued. > > **Gfactor** > Pit Moderator Holy shit, I gotta watch my fucking mouth! Sometimes the cuntshitting words just pop right outta my God damed fingers and I’d be cocksucked if I notice. I will be on guard for this from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/77 "2009-07-17T21:55:40Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Originally spewed by **Pat Buchanan** > I think Pat has a point. I mean who can forget Thomas Jefferson pleading in vain for some black folks to step up and help write the Declaration of Independence? But nooooooo, they were too busy picking his tobacco and having his offspring. He was wrong about Gettysburg and Vicksburg too. He gets a pass on Normandy because I don’t know what the percentage of black casualties were there. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/78 "2009-07-17T22:06:17Z")
I didn’t realize the most basic “fuck you” was prohibited in the Pit. Did that happen at the same time as “cunt” was prohibited, or did it come about later? Since I think it would have been far more controversial, yet I don’t remember anyone mentioning it. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/79 "2009-07-17T22:09:56Z")
Well, we can state with some confidence that all the Germans at Normandy were white. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337/80 "2009-07-17T22:11:35Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > I didn’t realize the most basic “fuck you” was prohibited in the Pit. Did that happen at the same time as “cunt” was prohibited, or did it come about later? Since I think it would have been far more controversial, yet I don’t remember anyone mentioning it. Same time. The rule is, no sex-based insults towards other members. You can call another poster an asshole, and you can call the President a motherfucker, but you can’t call another poster a motherfucker. And before you ask, no, the logic behind this does not, in fact, make any sense at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-that-the-light-is-shining-on-the-racists/503337.md?page=5)