# I like the new TSA pat downs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788 "2010-11-24T16:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/1 "2010-11-24T16:57:03Z")
It’s the only action I’ve gotten all week! 😉 But seriously folks, it seems that there’s a huge population out there that just doesn’t [get it.](http://www.slate.com/id/2275839/) > [@](#): > > I understand your objectives. You want to be unpredictable. And sometimes, you need to pat people down. But combining these two things, in the form of surprise molestation, is a really bad idea. It’s a recipe for trauma and confrontation. > > Tell us what you’re going to do so we can brace ourselves for it. Or maybe we’ll choose not to fly. We can’t make an informed decision unless you level with us. You owe us that much. This is America. Really? Do you really get it? Because your last paragraph contradicts the previous one. I’m not saying that its going to be comfortable for everyone, it obviously isn’t. And I’m not saying everyone should take the same attitude I plan to, which is that it’s a few seconds of awkwardness but otherwise harmless. I don’t care if they grab my junk. But comparing it to molestation is too much. You’re asked to strip at the doctor’s office. The bank has all your personal financial information. Hell, you have to show an ID if you’re buying by credit card at Macy’s. Different places have different standards and expectations of what’s allowed and not allowed. People (such as former governor Jesse Ventura on the Stephanie Miller show this week) have claimed that such a pat down would be sexual assault if done in the street. Well guess what? It’s not done in the street! It’s done because you want to fly in a plane with hundreds of other people that can’t run away from you if you happen to smuggle aboard a weapon. What the TSA doing is not molestation at all. Their job requires that people submit to a security screening to make sure you’re not blown up in the air. Pat downs are legal and proper, even if you’re uncomfortable with it. You might as well accuse your gynecologist of peeping. These are different times. 20 years ago it would be unheard of to think that people would hijack a plane and fly it into buildings, but it happened. If the government does nothing, people will blame them for doing nothing. But they do something, there will always be those who accuse them of doing too much. I don’t know if the new pat downs are too much, but I know that for me, it doesn’t cross a line. For some people it does. That’s fine, but don’t write a paradoxical article and complain of molestation. I hope they keep on doing the more invasive pat downs for years until Americans get used to it. Then the rabble rousers can pick something new to complain about ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/2 "2010-11-24T17:01:01Z")
Up yours. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/3 "2010-11-24T17:01:59Z")
16 years ago it was unthinkable that a uhaul rental would pose that much of risk, then the federal building happened. Last time I moved I wasn’t groped. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/4 "2010-11-24T17:10:52Z")
Just 'cause you’re OK with it, why does that mean I have to be? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/5 "2010-11-24T17:24:12Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Just 'cause you’re OK with it, why does that mean I have to be? I didn’t say you have to be ok with it, I said people shouldn’t compare it to being molested. If you have a problem with it, you don’t have to fly. But do you also not go to the doctor’s office because you don’t want to strip? I’m fed up with people overreacting to it. It’s more invasive than we’re used to, but we’re not in the realm of cavity searches and stripping yet. I don’t think it’ll get there, so I don’t worry about it ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/6 "2010-11-24T17:28:25Z")
I go to the doctor because I want to have my body examined for my health. I do not go to the airport for that purpose. I consent to the doctor examining my body. I do not consent to some half-trained berk doing the same in front of a bunch of other people. Do you honestly think that’s comparable? And yes, some people _do_ have to fly. There is no other similar mode of transportation. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/7 "2010-11-24T17:34:07Z")
Comparing it to a doctor’s visit is moronic. That’s what I pay a doctor for. On the other hand, if I refuse a body scan and/or patdown, I’m out the cost of a plane ticket _and_ apparently liable to arrest and civil penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/8 "2010-11-24T17:34:28Z")
I’m waiting for someone to call for a national moan-like-you-mean-it-during-the-pat-down day. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/9 "2010-11-24T17:34:34Z")
If, when asked to strip at my doctor’s office I change my mind; I am free to leave. What happens if I am asked to submit to a pat down and I decide to skip flying? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/10 "2010-11-24T17:37:41Z")
There’s another difference. The doctor is a skilled professional, trained in how to perform said examination in the least invasive way possible to achieve teh required result. The TSA person, on the other hand, is paid peanuts and more likely to behave like a monkey. I’m also not aware of a code of ethics controlling TSA employees. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/11 "2010-11-24T17:41:47Z")
Yeah, we definitely needed another fucking thread about TSA. The other umpteen jillion threads on the same topic could not possibly contain the sublime insight supplied by the OP. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/12 "2010-11-24T17:43:21Z")
Yeah, well some of us have more junk than others. It isn’t sexual molestation, but it is a further erosion of privacy. You’re being touched in intimate areas by a complete stranger with no evidence that you’ve done anything wrong. And so far, there’s not much evidence to suggest the intrusive practice is necessary or effective. Calling it molestation is unfortunate hyperbole that allows the pro-patdown contingent to cast objectors as whiny hysterics, rather than engaging in a good-faith debate over whether it’s really _worth it_ to subject millions of innocent people to a humiliating frisking just to maintain the illusion that our skies are safer. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/13 "2010-11-24T17:49:22Z")
The amazing thing is the Customs officers at the border have developed skills that allow them to weed through the innocent and find the threats by just asking a a few questions of each person. Of course, ICE has trained employees. I wonder if the OP will object when the TSA rent-a-cop wants to stick his finger up the OP’s ass to thwart the next obvious threat to airline security. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/14 "2010-11-24T17:52:10Z")
I’m totally willing to give up freedom for security, or at least I wouldn’t think I was receiving a raw deal. If, however, the _freedom_ is over genitals and the _security_ is over explosions, I can’t help but think the equation has been skewed. btw, I’ve now named my genitals _the freedom_. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/15 "2010-11-24T17:56:31Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > I’m totally willing to give up freedom for security, or at least I wouldn’t think I was receiving a raw deal. If, however, the _freedom_ is over genitals and the _security_ is over explosions, I can’t help but think the equation has been skewed. > > btw, I’ve now named my genitals _the freedom_. In view of the last seven words of this post, I’d reconsider the first seven if I were you. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/16 "2010-11-24T17:59:28Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > In view of the last seven words of this post, I’d reconsider the first seven if I were you. Actually, he’s on to something. We can have a large board with hooks. All of us can hang our junk on the board and pick it up on the return flight. This will save the TSA tons of time. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/17 "2010-11-24T18:04:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Actually, he’s on to something. We can have a large board with hooks. All of us can hang our junk on the board and pick it up on the return flight. This will save the TSA tons of time. Then I’ll have to do without my junk for the whole vacation. I’d prefer the ‘take a penny/leave a penny’ procedure. And if some people leave a quarter, I could upgrade. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/18 "2010-11-24T18:04:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Actually, he’s on to something. We can have a large board with hooks. All of us can hang our junk on the board and pick it up on the return flight. This will save the TSA tons of time. Please. I’m not paying an extra $25 for carry on baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/19 "2010-11-24T18:07:38Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I didn’t say you have to be ok with it, I said people shouldn’t compare it to being molested. But in fact, you are required (and may be detained or fined for refusing) to submit to contact that, in any context other than a medical exam conducted by a physician (or RN or PA), or as part of a pre-detention search by a certified law enforcement officer following arrest under warrant or probable cause, would be regarded as molestation or inappropriate sexual contact. Such inspection by credible parties is performed under supervision, according to statutes and accepted practices, and in sterile conditions. From what I’ve read of the TSA examinations, none of this is necessarily true. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > It’s more invasive than we’re used to, but we’re not in the realm of cavity searches and stripping yet. I don’t think it’ll get there, so I don’t worry about it So it doesn’t personally bother you and you don’t think it’ll “get there” (to a point of invasive and abusive contact), so it is okay for all? What about people who have been the victim of sexual molestation and suffer anxiety or PTSD? What about the possibility–likely, given the substandard background checks performed as a part of the TSA hiring process–that someone with a history of opportunistic or predatory sexual assault is allowed into such a position? > [@YogSosoth](#): > > These are different times. 20 years ago it would be unheard of to think that people would hijack a plane and fly it into buildings, but it happened…I hope they keep on doing the more invasive pat downs for years until Americans get used to it. Then the rabble rousers can pick something new to complain about This is thoughtless, reflexive acceptance of an action based upon the “whatever you need to do to keep us safe, just don’t make me think about it” school of thought. There is no credible evidence or reason to believe that these searches will accomplish enhanced security. You can still walk onto an aircraft with a quart-sized bag full of containers of liquid and gel adequate to blow a hole in structure or control systems. It is still entirely possible to bring aboard any number of objects that can effectively be used as weapons. The one step that would have absolutely prevented the 11 September 2001 attacks–securing the flight deck against intrusion–has already been taken, and should have been done long ago as advised by numerous security reviews. Invoking this again as a reason to permit invasive, offensive, and unnecessary examinations performed by semi-trained non-professionals is pure security theater that does nothing to promote actual security, and serves only to create jobs, slow down security lines, and anger passengers who are being treated with less respect and courtesy than a common criminal. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/20 "2010-11-24T18:07:58Z")
I suppose because it wont stop people from smuggling bombs makes me wonder about it. It would not have stopped the underwear bomber who was stopped by ineptitude. It is always chasing ghosts of Xmas past. I guy has a shoe bomb and we take off our shoes. Do you think the terrorists can’t read. Then an underwear bomber and we check skivvies. How many shoe bombs have been confiscated?. How many underwear bombs have been grabbed? 911 was allowed to happen because we had the Airlines in charge of protection. They had obsolete, often not working machines ,manned by underpaid poorly trained people. It was cheaper. They made more profits. Want to make flying safer, check the luggage. The private scans are already being saved and passed around. The truth is rarely what they sell us. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788.md?page=2)