# I like the new TSA pat downs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788 "2010-11-24T16:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/101 "2010-11-25T04:03:39Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I wonder if there’s any truth to this? > [The world's top new source on natural health - NaturalNews.com](http://www.naturalnews.com/030495_TSA_infectious_disease.htmlI) am definitely skeptical of something call “Natural News” and I think the idea of a pandemic is over the top but I do wonder how often they change those gloves. It does seem like unchanged gloves could certainly transmit some nasty things. The TSA makes it abundantly clear on their website that you can, at any time, request the TSO to change his/her gloves. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/102 "2010-11-25T04:06:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What happens with someone who’s allergic to latex, but has to have a pat down? Not sure if you were asking this seriously or not; if so, the TSA does have non-latex gloves. I’m allergic to latex. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/103 "2010-11-25T04:14:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What’s the point in labeling this a choice, anyways? How does it change that the procedures are unacceptable? Just because you can choose not to walk in a dangerous neighborhood doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for there to be murders committed in it. The comparison is ridiculous; so far, no court has ruled what the TSA is doing to be either illegal or unconstitutional. Furthermore, to compare a threat of bodily harm or death to submitting to an overall physically harmless procedure is disingenuous. Yes, I’m aware of the urine bag incident. Yes, I’m aware of other high profile media incidents. I don’t think that anyone would disagree that these are isolated, irregular incidents and as such, best handled on a case by case basis. > [@](#): > > Or let’s go another route. Let’s say a criminal holds a gun to your head, and tells you to give me him your money. You have a choice to not give him money. You’ll be dead if it happens, but it’s still a choice. Now what value is there in expressing that it’s a choice? Why not be like most rational people and view it as you were forced to do what he says? The choice exists, again, even if neither option is appealing. Neither choice is “right,” but the time to argue the ethics of the situation with the criminal is not when there’s a gun at your head. Fortunately, the TSA doesn’t hold a gun to your head or otherwise force you to undergo the screening process. As such, this example, too, is quite the stretch. Apologies for the multi-post replies; I haven’t yet mastered the art of browsing the forums on my iPhone. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/104 "2010-11-25T04:23:57Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Not everyone is whole and healthy. The sick, disabled, and elderly are often the ones getting the most attention and ending up being publicly humiliated because of prosthetics and medical devices. Many of them already have an uncomfortable and humiliating existence and don’t need people with no medical training asking humiliating questions in public and handling their medical equipment in ways that could result in accidents or damage to their health. Trans people, too. A friend of mine has already been humiliated by security officials after going through one of the new scanners, and that’s in Canada where we don’t (yet) have the grope-a-thons. Not to mention with ID on which the sex marker matches her appearance - often difficult or impossible to get for many people. I guess trans people get to choose between staying where they are and getting outed to all and sundry and possibly being put in danger as a result. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/105 "2010-11-25T04:27:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What’s the point in labeling this a choice, anyways? How does it change that the procedures are unacceptable? This, YoungT, is what they call a “red herring.” In any event, I would be willing to bet one trillion internet dollars that 94.8% of people going crazy about this _only_ care because it might embarrass them or make them slightly uncomfortable when they fly. If we were going to subject only those flying in and out of, say, Iran, to these methods, everyone would be all, “Yeah, that’s cool.” While these “molestation” procedures are silly and ineffectual, I can’t help but to be annoyed by the people who all of a sudden are batshit crazy about civil liberties. Sure, there are some legitimate complaints buried in the frenzy, but most of them are from self-centered douches. By the way, when did the entire planet become an expert on Israel’s airport screening procedures? I swear to gods, I must have counted four references on the Sunday morning shows to Israel’s totally practical, for the endless span that is the US, racial profiling tactics that should be implemented here post haste. And that was just on the Sunday news shows alone! Anyway, enough about what I think. In short, this is a somewhat intrusive waste of time and money that is doing nothing for national security, but 94.8% of the loudmouths are only complaining because it might inconvenience them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/106 "2010-11-25T04:28:42Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Paraphrasing something you said in another thread, this looks like Cargo Cult Airport Security. > > Just go through the apparent motions of security and the gods of air travel will keep you safe. I don’t recall saying that, but it is a very appropriate metaphor for the measures undertaken by TSA. Basic security methods employed by financial and security institutions, such as employment and travel patterns are eschewed for ‘random’ spot checks, often of the most unlikely threats. The agents themselves, while given authority to perform extensive and invasive searches, aren’t trained and trusted to make judgements about whether particular passengers are probable threats. The hope is that through some combination of shotgun searches and handwaving that terror threats will be deterred, while the fact is that any determined, expert effort to foil security measures is very likely to succeed. Fortunately, while the actual threats are somewhat determined, they’re hardly expert, and indeed, most of the threats to date, including the 11 September attackers, were more clumsy and fumbling that even the puerile imaginings of hack authors. Right after the attacks there were many supposed security experts opining that the attacks had to be due to some major government providing training and cover, whereas it turned out to be a bunch of yahoos with student and tourist visas who had done the minimum of training in order to operate the planes. There is no indicate of an intricate network of sleeper cells, highly trained extremists waiting in the eaves to embark on mass destruction, or any of a number of Hollywood thriller plots. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/107 "2010-11-25T04:34:36Z")
Yes, **MOL** , we get it, people are self-centered asshats who only notice something when it enters their monkeysphere. At least for once the small-minded selfishness is working _with_ enlightened self-interest rather than against it. ---
**Author:** ![Nunavut\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e95f7d/32.png) [@Nunavut\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunavut_Boy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/108 "2010-11-25T04:34:42Z")
I would like to go on record as being someone who would gladly fly an airline with no security procedures whatsoever. \>99.9% of people on a plane have a vested interest in seeing that plane land. I can spend the time saved more productively by planning for asteroid strikes and the possibility of the great Nunavut ebola pandemic of 2011. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/109 "2010-11-25T04:45:03Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Yes, **MOL** , we get it, people are self-centered asshats who only notice something when it enters their monkeysphere. At least for once the small-minded selfishness is working _with_ enlightened self-interest rather than against it. Thank you for validating me. This will make me feel better next time someone grabs my crotch at the airport. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/110 "2010-11-25T04:53:51Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > The TSA makes it abundantly clear on their website that you can, at any time, request the TSO to change his/her gloves. You have to request it? They don’t automatically change gloves between people? Do they also have signs at the airports making it abundantly clear? Those are serious questions. I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/111 "2010-11-25T05:01:00Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > You have to request it? They don’t automatically change gloves between people? Do they also have signs at the airports making it abundantly clear? I don’t know if you _have_ to ask; to be honest, I’ve never really paid attention to their SOP in the hundreds of times I’ve passed through security. I don’t know if there is any signage to that effect, either, but common sense would seem to prevail there. If I was the type to notice such things, and I wanted them to change their gloves, I wouldn’t need a sign to prompt me to. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/112 "2010-11-25T05:01:51Z")
> [@Nunavut\_Boy](#): > > the great Nunavut ebola pandemic of 2011. WHAT!? \ ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/113 "2010-11-25T05:03:19Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > …but common sense would seem to prevail there. An assumption unwarranted by any other aspect of their operation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/114 "2010-11-25T05:13:39Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > You’ve bought the government propaganda hook, line and sinker. > > Fool. I’ve decided to name my genitals _The Propaganda_. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/115 "2010-11-25T05:17:12Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Or they could always, you know, just go through the scanners. Sounds simple until you realize they have been picking out people for a hand job. if you hate the scanners which makes you naked in pictures ,you have an option of being groped by a rent a cop. Thanks for the “choice”. Do you want to get poked in the left eye or right eye. it’s your choice. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/116 "2010-11-25T05:26:10Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I’ve decided to name my genitals _The Propaganda_. [Heh.](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/10/for-the-first-time-the-tsa-meets-resistance/65390/) > [@](#): > > “Yes, but starting tomorrow, we’re going to start searching your crotchal area” – this is the word he used, “crotchal” – and you’re not going to like it." > > “What am I not going to like?” I asked. > > “We have to search up your thighs and between your legs until we meet resistance,” he explained. > > “Resistance?” I asked. > > “Your testicles,” he explained. > > 'That’s funny," I said, “because ‘The Resistance’ is the actual name I’ve given to my testicles.” > > He answered, “Like ‘The Situation,’ that guy from ‘Jersey Shore?’” > > Yes, exactly, I said. (I used to call my testicles “The Insurgency,” but those assholes in Iraq ruined the term.) ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/117 "2010-11-25T05:42:27Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > An assumption unwarranted by any other aspect of their operation. > > Stranger :rolleyes: Cheap shot at the TSA aside, I was talking about common sense of the _passenger_. The person to whom it should be common sense that if they witness gloves not being changed, to ask for it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/118 "2010-11-25T06:18:34Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Everyone is saying that flying is a choice. Fine, if you’re afraid of a bomb on a plane then make that choice and don’t fucking fly! Don’t force your fears on the rest of us. I’m a bit late, but I just wanted to say you nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/119 "2010-11-25T08:23:38Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I guess trans people get to choose between staying where they are and getting outed to all and sundry and possibly being put in danger as a result. This too! I was just talking to a friend of mine recently, and she basically said that there was just no way she could bear the thought of flying now that these measures are in place. The more I think about it the angrier I get. It’s an indefensible invasion of privacy at every level. > [@Nunavut\_Boy](#): > > I would like to go on record as being someone who would gladly fly an airline with no security procedures whatsoever. I’ll join you. The massively reduced operating costs should mean lower fares, too! (Hey, I can dream… ;)) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/120 "2010-11-25T08:53:50Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > You have to request it? They don’t automatically change gloves between people? Do they also have signs at the airports making it abundantly clear? > > Those are serious questions. I have no idea. the gloves are for _their_ protection, not yours. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > WHAT!? > \ How about Adak? I have it on good authority that the [national forest](http://atlasobscura.com/place/adak-national-forest) there is doing much better after the marine went nuts and chopped half of it down. At Christmas the locals decorate the entire thing =) [all 33 trees…] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788.md?page=7)