# I like the new TSA pat downs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788 "2010-11-24T16:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/121 "2010-11-25T09:26:50Z")
To all the folks who say “Just use the scanner if you don’t want to be touched”: [What if](http://www.npr.org/2010/11/15/131338172/humorist-dave-barry-and-the-tsa) they see something on the scanner they don’t like? Then you **will** be touched. And I have to imagine that if, at that point, you decide you’d rather not fly that day, the TSA will decide that looks mighty suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/122 "2010-11-25T11:14:07Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > To all the folks who say “Just use the scanner if you don’t want to be touched”: > [What if](http://www.npr.org/2010/11/15/131338172/humorist-dave-barry-and-the-tsa) they see something on the scanner they don’t like? Then you **will** be touched. And I have to imagine that if, at that point, you decide you’d rather not fly that day, the TSA will decide that looks mighty suspicious. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/123 "2010-11-25T14:26:59Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > To all the folks who say “Just use the scanner if you don’t want to be touched”: > [What if](http://www.npr.org/2010/11/15/131338172/humorist-dave-barry-and-the-tsa) they see something on the scanner they don’t like? Then you **will** be touched. And I have to imagine that if, at that point, you decide you’d rather not fly that day, the TSA will decide that looks mighty suspicious. As I mentioned in one of the other TSA threads, I had flown out of O’Hare on Monday and was scanned. After the scan the TSA agent started to pat me down because the scan had shown something suspicious, which turned out to be a metal pill carrier in my pants pocket that I had forgotten to take out. The pat-down was brief and in my opinion non-intrusive, since it was only in the suspicious area. When I sheepishly pulled out the contained and explained what it was (and at the TSA agent’s request opened it to show the contents) I was passed through. I suppose if I had had the pill holder tucked into my underwear I might have had my “junk”\* touched, but it would have been my own damn fault. - By the way, I don’t think of it as my “junk”. It may not get used much any more, but I’m not yet ready to consider it useless. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/124 "2010-11-25T14:44:01Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > As I mentioned in one of the other TSA threads, I had flown out of O’Hare on Monday and was scanned. After the scan the TSA agent started to pat me down because the scan had shown something suspicious, which turned out to be a metal pill carrier in my pants pocket that I had forgotten to take out. The pat-down was brief and in my opinion non-intrusive, since it was only in the suspicious area. When I sheepishly pulled out the contained and explained what it was (and at the TSA agent’s request opened it to show the contents) I was passed through. > > I suppose if I had had the pill holder tucked into my underwear I might have had my “junk”\* touched, but it would have been my own damn fault. > > - By the way, I don’t think of it as my “junk”. It may not get used much any more, but I’m not yet ready to consider it useless. And if you’re wearing some sort of surgical appliance then it’s not your own damn fault is it? But you will be patted down and it will be pawed at by an individual with no medical training who doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/125 "2010-11-25T14:49:23Z")
> **[Menstruating woman subjected to TSA grope because panty-liner obscured her...](https://boingboing.net/2010/11/24/menstruating-woman-s.html)** > > A self-described "rule follower" went through an airport pornoscanner wearing a panty-liner (she was menstruating). Because the hygienic item obscured the screener's view of her vagina vulva, she was made… > [@](#): > > Menstruating woman subjected to TSA grope because panty-liner obscured her vulva on pornoscanner > … > There are plenty of TSA apologists who say that objections to the TSA’s invasive “pat-downs” are just whining from people don’t want to go through the backscatter radiation machines – we bring it on ourselves. But as we’ve seen, anything out of the ordinary – wearing a fabric pad during menstruation, artificial limbs, medical prostheses, etc – can send you off for a date with Doctor Jellyfinger, Junior G-Man extraordinaire. > > **By declaring war on the unexpected, the TSA has set in motion a policy that makes the lives of cancer sufferers, disabled people, people who’ve had major surgery, and many others who’re already having a hard time even harder.** My emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/126 "2010-11-25T15:11:17Z")
The new Acme Anal Probe 2012. It will be available in S, M and L. It is described as user friendly, requiring only 3 TSA agents to use. Two to hold the passenger down and one to insert the probe. It’s said to be painless if properly inserted. Side effects are limited, including slight bleeding and some anal leakage and minimal psychological damage. “But,” Ima Perv, TSA spokesperson stated, “we can’t have anyone’s ass blowing up at 30,000 feet.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/127 "2010-11-25T15:19:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The new Acme Anal Probe 2012. It will be available in S, M and L. It is described as user friendly, requiring only 3 TSA agents to use. Two to hold the passenger down and one to insert the probe. It’s said to be painless if properly inserted. Side effects are limited, including slight bleeding and some anal leakage and minimal psychological damage. “But,” Ima Perv, TSA spokesperson stated, “we can’t have anyone’s ass blowing up at 30,000 feet.” And so it’s come full circle. The plan revealed. We’re being trained to do the aliens’ dirty work for them. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/128 "2010-11-25T16:25:04Z")
I am avoiding flying if at all possible. My travel on the Northeast Corridor will be Amtrak (or car). Unfortunately, when I have to leave this area it means flying. As much as we, the passengers, _should_ hate these intrusive measures which are of questionable use, I’ve seen a few articles where TSA agents are asked their opinions (off the record, of course, if they want to keep their jobs) and the agents hate it as much if not even more. [Before the ignorant start spouting off “they can get another job”, look at unemployment rates, especially for marginally skilled people and keep your stupidity to yourself.] While a two minute pat-down is annoying for the passengers, think about how 8 hours of it is for the agent. They are not patting down models all day long. They’re dealing with surly (and rightfully so), sometimes smelly and gross, passengers for an entire shift. Even if they are homosexual, it isn’t likely that more than a small minority of their ‘customers’ would be appealing. It’s disheartening for them; morale is lower than ever. They don’t make the policy, don’t enjoy the policy, but have to follow it. And, like employees in just about any job, the agents and their supervisors are prone to misinterpreting policy (or just plain not understanding it). They are human, they make mistakes, and it isn’t like TSA is hiring Rhodes Scholars who are intellectually curious about the minutiae of TSA policy. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/129 "2010-11-25T17:49:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The new Acme Anal Probe 2012. It will be available in S, M and L. It is described as user friendly, requiring only 3 TSA agents to use. Two to hold the passenger down and one to insert the probe. It’s said to be painless if properly inserted. Side effects are limited, including slight bleeding and some anal leakage and minimal psychological damage. “But,” Ima Perv, TSA spokesperson stated, “we can’t have anyone’s ass blowing up at 30,000 feet.” Now you’re just being ridiculous. [Check number 4](http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_150_if-tsa-security-measures-were-even-more-invasive_p2) -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/130 "2010-11-25T17:57:00Z")
> [@howye](#): > > No, No, No, NO! > > 9/11 did not happen because the airlines were in charge, it did not happen because the machines were not working, or the pay scale of the fucking security staff. > > The weapons used to hijack the planes on 9/11 - and this may come as shock to some people - were perfectly fucking LEGAL! They used boxcutters and small knives, allowed under the rules as they were then. Nothing, nada, zilch, zero, zip, that is done now or was done then at airport security would have stopped those guys - because they looked for and exploited gaps within the system and used something legal to do something perfectly illegal. Sure, their actions prior to arriving at the airport may have been suspicious, conspiratorial, or otherwise criminal, but that was not covered by airport security. The current system of groping or irradiating is going to find noting, because the terrorists, like it or not, are not generally fucking morons. Or at least the ones who plan these things, the guys who they get to carry them out are more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Short version: 9/11 happened because “security” was looking for inanimate objects rather than looking for terrorists (the Israeli approach). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/131 "2010-11-25T18:01:06Z")
Airlines could offer flights with simple metal detectors. Then also offer flights with all measures including TSA hand jobs. Then find out which flight would have more people trying to get on. Are these measures taken for the people? Let them decide. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/132 "2010-11-25T18:02:49Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > By the way, when did the entire planet become an expert on Israel’s airport screening procedures? I swear to gods, I must have counted four references on the Sunday morning shows to Israel’s totally practical, for the endless span that is the US, _ **racial** _ profiling tactics **BBBZZZZTTTTTT!!!** When you reveal yourself to be an abject ignoramus on a subject, you lose your license to criticize others on that matter. Them’s the rules. When come back, bring correct description of proper security procedures as practiced by the Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/133 "2010-11-25T18:25:15Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > **BBBZZZZTTTTTT!!!** > > When you reveal yourself to be an abject ignoramus on a subject, you lose your license to criticize others on that matter. Them’s the rules. > > When come back, bring correct description of proper security procedures as practiced by the Israelis. Oh yeah? What would you call it, sir? “Special focus on people traveling from certain countries?” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/134 "2010-11-25T18:49:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > [Menstruating woman subjected to TSA grope because panty-liner obscured her vulva on pornoscanner - Boing Boing](http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/24/menstruating-woman-s.html) > My emphasis. One can only imagine what would have happened had she been using a menstrual cup!!! At least it was a grown woman – had they had a young girl who had just gotten her period, that might have been damned near traumatic. (No, I’m not exaggerating – I would have been in tears for a week. Consider how dramatic young teenagers can be) If that were me, I’d have removed the pad, and thrown it in the TSA agent’s face. Well, not really. But I sure as hell would WANT to. (I wonder if I could write the words “Fuck you” in some kind of substance that would show up on the scanner) ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/135 "2010-11-25T21:09:07Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > To all the folks who say “Just use the scanner if you don’t want to be touched”: > [What if](http://www.npr.org/2010/11/15/131338172/humorist-dave-barry-and-the-tsa) they see something on the scanner they don’t like? Then you **will** be touched. And I have to imagine that if, at that point, you decide you’d rather not fly that day, the TSA will decide that looks mighty suspicious. [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story) The TSA is on record as already saying that once a person submits to the screening process, he/she can not just decide to leave halfway through. It’s on the news. It’s all over the internet. Anyone traveling should be well aware by now that the time to decide you aren’t willing to undergo a potential pat down is before you get in line. Even then, > [@](#): > > No one will be forcibly searched or arrested “just because they refuse to go through the security procedures,” Barbera [Sheriff’s Office] said. “That may rise to the level of suspicious behavior for the TSA, but it wouldn’t rise to the level of suspicious behavior for a deputy,” she said. > > But Barbera said that if a person is judged to be a possible threat, deputies are legally permitted to detain and search that individual. “The deputies will do it at the airport just as they would do it anywhere else,” she said. > > Once cleared by the TSA and deputies, the people will be allowed to leave, she said. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/136 "2010-11-25T22:39:23Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Oh yeah? What would you call it, sir? I’d call it practicing actual security instead of security dinner theater. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/137 "2010-11-26T14:29:39Z")
And here I was expecting you to quibble over the distinction between increased scrutiny on certain nationalities, and racial profiling. You just threw buzz words at me. Booo! Booo to you! ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/138 "2010-11-26T14:39:24Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story) > > The TSA is on record as already saying that once a person submits to the screening process, he/she can not just decide to leave halfway through. It’s on the news. It’s all over the internet. Anyone traveling should be well aware by now that the time to decide you aren’t willing to undergo a potential pat down is before you get in line. > > Even then, Exactly. There is no real choice here other than the choice between being willing to accept a pat down, possibly a very intimate pat down, and not flying. Perfectly innocent people who have embarrassing medical issues, people who have emotional issues (perhaps due to a past molestation), etc., are being forced to make that choice. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/139 "2010-11-26T15:07:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Exactly. There is no real choice here other than the choice between being willing to accept a pat down, possibly a very intimate pat down, and not flying. > > Perfectly innocent people who have embarrassing medical issues, people who have emotional issues (perhaps due to a past molestation), etc., are being forced to make that choice. I don’t disagree with any of what you just said. Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788/140 "2010-11-26T15:09:12Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > I don’t disagree with any of what you just said. Did I miss something? No, I was emphasizing your point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-the-new-tsa-pat-downs/561788.md?page=8)