# I like Wal-Mart, and I'm not afraid to admit it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675 "2008-02-22T03:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/41 "2008-02-22T16:23:00Z")
I tend to avoid Wal-Mart, but mostly because the greeters creep me out. Zellers, however, was for a long time dreary, dingy, pathetic, and had crappy stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/42 "2008-02-22T16:41:34Z")
[QUOTE=Throatwarbler Mangrove] Well, the whole premises of capitalism is that goods trade for a price that is fair to everyone. If you artificially rig the market so that the seller gets more money than he deserves, that may be “good” for the seller, but only at the expense of the buyer (it’s not as if the extra profit for the seller came out of thin air), and the economy as a whole certainly suffers, because just as in any other kind of protectionism, someone is benefitting unfairly at the expense of others. [/QUOTE] Wal-Mart artificially rigs the market by extorting its overseas vendors into exclusive contracts at a price determined by Wal-Mart; the vendor has to do whatever it takes to meet that price, or they may find themselves without a buyer at all. This one company is lowering the average wage scales in Asian countries through anticompetitive abuses of its buying power. And, they sell cheap crap in ugly, noisy stores. ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/43 "2008-02-22T17:04:20Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] Wal-Mart artificially rigs the market by extorting its overseas vendors into exclusive contracts at a price determined by Wal-Mart; the vendor has to do whatever it takes to meet that price, or they may find themselves without a buyer at all. [/QUOTE] They could always sell to someone else. Wal-mart isn’t the only buyer. (Where do Sears, Target, Zellers, etc. get their goods?) It’s a business decision they make if they feel the volume Wal-mart will buy from them justifies a lower price. They are free to not make that deal. Simply offering to buy a huge volume is not extortion. It’s standard business practice to get a lower price when you buy more. The supplier decides what price they will agree to. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/44 "2008-02-22T17:28:06Z")
I’ve heard enough about dishonest business practices on Walmart’s part (e.g. paying the building contractors far less then promised after they build a new store—admittedly, I have no cite for any such claim) to make me less than enthusiastic about shopping there. But sometimes, gosh darn it, I want or need stuff that’s cheaper there than anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/45 "2008-02-22T17:44:40Z")
[QUOTE=fruitbat] I am in the unusual position of admiring Wal Mart and generally thinking that Wal Mart detractors are dipshits . . . but I hate shopping there. I just don’t think the stores are attractively designed and they may have a million products, but they never seem to have what I need. [/QUOTE] I don’t have a particular opinion on them but I very rarely shop there for the same reason. The ones that are convenient to me tend to be very dingy. The aisles tend to be narrow and the merchandise is often scattered. I would rather go to Target whose stores tend to be very clean with large aisles. The merchandise at Target often seems to be of a higher quality. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/46 "2008-02-22T18:06:34Z")
I don’t get the “cheap product” argument. The Band-Aids I buy there seem to be the same as anywhere else…the food (except for the Sam’s Choice brand, I guess) isn’t generic off-brand. I buy a load of toys as a collector, and the Star Wars figures seem to be the same as the ones at Toys R Us, just cheaper, more plentiful, and more reliably stocked. I don’t see the dinginess and uncleanliness, either, but I can fully concede that’s a personal preference among people. I have a coworker who won’t go into Wal-Mart because it smells funny. I don’t know what the hell she’s talking about. I’d like to see a response to the workers-are-treated-badly rebuttal. I’ve heard for ages that they do, and I admit taking it for granted that it was probably true, but after watching Penn and Teller back Wal-Mart on their show, and seeing the Atlantic Monthly article, I’m not buying it at face value anymore. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/47 "2008-02-22T18:28:32Z")
> [@](#): > > They could always sell to someone else. Wal-mart isn’t the only buyer. (Where do Sears, Target, Zellers, etc. get their goods?) > > It’s a business decision they make if they feel the volume Wal-mart will buy from them justifies a lower price. They are free to not make that deal. > > Simply offering to buy a huge volume is not extortion. It’s standard business practice to get a lower price when you buy more. The supplier decides what price they will agree to. this trivializes what is a much more complex situation. It’s not merely that WalMart buys in large lots to get cheap prices. They’ve been acused of demanding changes in the way their suppliers run their own companies, and the prices they charge. It’s been investigated by a number of places, including **60 Minutes**. And Wal Mart’s unique position as a huge buyer places it in a special class of buyer that it’s not all easy to brush off by saying “you can sell to someone else”. See here for a start: [http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C1](http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html?page=0%2C1) > **[walmartwatch.com](http://walmartwatch.com/)** > **[Is Wal-Mart Good For America? | FRONTLINE | PBS](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/)** > > FRONTLINE offers two starkly contrasting images: one of empty storefronts in Circleville, Ohio, where the local TV manufacturing plant has closed down; the other--a sea of high rises in the South China boomtown of Shenzhen. The connection between... [http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2004/national-reporting/works/walmart1.html](http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2004/national-reporting/works/walmart1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/48 "2008-02-22T18:45:30Z")
[QUOTE=Jragon] The only thing I really have against walmart I have against major retailers in general. Namely the whole “we only stock games M and below and movies R and under with a few random exceptions.” [/QUOTE] You do realize that there has **never** been an Adults Only-rated console game (on purpose, so don’t go saying San Andreas) and that the handful of PC ones there have been aren’t released in box form right? You’re also aware that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999(you get my drift)% of all movies released in a given year are rated R or under right? Faulting Wal-Mart for the practices of two whole industries is just lame. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/49 "2008-02-22T18:55:06Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] > **[walmartwatch.com](http://walmartwatch.com/)** [/QUOTE] Ok, this particular site…it’s ridiculous. Frong page has a giant headline on “Dangerous Toys at Wal-Mart”. Clicking on it reveals such atrocities as: “Nord placed the bulk of the blame for unsafe toys on manufacturers, but retailers like Wal-Mart and Toys ‘R’ Us play a major role in the problem.” "Outrage surrounding new reports on the safety of plastic used to make some baby bottles has parents angry at retailers like Wal-Mart. " “Do retailers like Wal-Mart have any responsibility to ensure the quality of the goods they sell?” Searching around, I see complaints that Wal-Mart doesn’t accept returns unless they absolutely have to, and that Wal-Mart takes any and all returns without checking, so bad merchandise gets placed on the shelf. Look, Wal-Mart has problems, but that site, which blames things on “retailers like Wal-Mart” and contradicts itself based on what they’re supposed to hate is ridiculous… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/50 "2008-02-22T19:09:42Z")
I have a hundred-and-fifty dollar Wal\*Mart gift card that I’ve been carrying around since my birthday in November. It will probably stay in my wallet until I have a burning desire to have a twenty-litre tub of mayonaisse. (Actually, it’s just too much of a pain-in-the-ass to go all the way out to the ass-end of no-where to use it. Wal\*Mart’s attempts to set up shop any closer to Vancouver proper have consistently been met with enough protest to drive them away.) ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/51 "2008-02-22T19:13:05Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] And Wal Mart’s unique position as a huge buyer places it in a special class of buyer that it’s not all easy to brush off by saying “you can sell to someone else”. [/QUOTE] It’s not easy to brush them off because, done right, you have the potential of making a lot of money by supplying them. It boils down to a business decision. Suppliers remain free to deal with them or not. Wal-mart may be the world’s biggest retailer but they aren’t the only one. If Wal-mart disappeared tomorrow, most of the issues brought up in those links would remain. America would still have to deal with job losses from cheap overseas imports. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/52 "2008-02-22T19:18:36Z")
I have less of a problem with WalMart than I used to - they’re doing some very good things in regards to leading green initiatives, for instance - but I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve willingly gone into one in the last couple of years. It always feels vaguely like I’m in outtakes of Dawn of the Dead when I’m in there. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/53 "2008-02-22T19:26:43Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] I have a coworker who won’t go into Wal-Mart because it smells funny. I don’t know what the hell she’s talking about. [/QUOTE] Good. I don’t feel like such a freak, anymore. Sure, I don’t like the grimy stores or pushy customers and I’m highly suspicious of their labour practises although I don’t buy into the “OMG, slave labour!!!” hyperbole, but the main reason I hate the place is the smell. Seriously, there’s a pervasive stench of what I can only describe as rubber and chemical adhesives hanging in the air that’s guaranteed to give me a headache if not trigger a full-blown migraine. I admit that I’m pretty sensitive to strong smells in general, though, and it’s definitely not limited to Walmart. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/54 "2008-02-22T19:27:05Z")
[This article](http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html) is a fairly good articlation of many of the business practices that people find most objectionable about Wal-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/55 "2008-02-22T19:32:32Z")
[QUOTE=Renee] I guess the stores must vary around the country, because the ones in Arkansas are always clean, well lit and organized. Not glamorous, but I’ve never seen the filth and squalor so many people complain about. The ones I’ve been to are much like Target, only with less pretty home decorating items. [/QUOTE] I’ve definitely seen a variation between the stores – the one on my route (by Midway for the Chi-dopers here) is generally pretty craptastic, long lines and there’s stuff everyone. But the parking lot stays full so I assume it’s working for them. The ones out by my mom in the Phoenix exurbs are positively glowing by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/56 "2008-02-22T20:00:30Z")
> [@](#): > > If Wal-mart disappeared tomorrow, most of the issues brought up in those links would remain. America would still have to deal with job losses from cheap overseas imports. You’re brushing it off too easily. Rubbermaid got screwed over by Wal Mart because of Wal Mart’s pushing for absurdly low prices. Part of the problem is that Wal Mart isn’t merely asking for the best prices, but is taking the suppliers and pushing still harder, greatly accelerating the push of jobs and business overseas. If WalMart disappeared tomorrow, the problem wouldn’t go away, but its rate would probably decrease. What did you think of the LATimes site, **Arizona** , or the Frontline piece? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/57 "2008-02-22T20:29:30Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] …You’re also aware that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999(you get my drift)% of all movies released in a given year are rated R or under right?.. [/QUOTE] True, but Walmart doesn’t seem to have a problem stocking the _unrated_ editions of major studio films. Of course they only contain material excised from the theatrical version to avoid an NC-17 rating. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/58 "2008-02-22T20:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] What did you think of the LATimes site, **Arizona** , or the Frontline piece? [/QUOTE] Oh, I know that Wal-Mart does things that, if not letter-of-the-law illegal are more than a little underhanded and smarmy…I just don’t think that sites like that other one are helping with the real problem. ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/59 "2008-02-22T20:35:48Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] What did you think of the LATimes site, **Arizona** , or the Frontline piece? [/QUOTE] Overall, I think a lot of it is sour grapes by companies that tried to play ball with Wal-mart and found out they weren’t in the same league. Wal-mart is very good at business. If you are too, you can make money as their supplier. That means knowing when to say no, even at the expense of short-term profits. The Vlasic pickle guys, for example. It’s not Wal-mart’s fault they made a horrendous business decision. It appears they didn’t understand their own brand. If your market position is of a high-quality/high-price pickle why on earth would you agree to sell huge jars of the things at Wal-mart for 3 bucks? They should have, and could have, said “no” to that. There are plenty of other places (like every grocery store in the whole freaking world) to sell pickles. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675/60 "2008-02-22T20:55:27Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] True, but Walmart doesn’t seem to have a problem stocking the _unrated_ editions of major studio films. Of course they only contain material excised from the theatrical version to avoid an NC-17 rating. [/QUOTE] Not always. Lots of PG-13 movies have “Unrated” versions that would barely push them up to R. And still other “Unrated” versions are just the original R-rated movie with a few extra minutes tacked on to justify the “Unrated” tag. Case in point, the recent “Unrated” version of American Gangster which contains an extra extended scene of Russell Crowe and Denzel Washington _walking and talking_. “Unrated” is a buzzword used to sell more DVDs. No more, no less. And this still doesn’t stop an NC-17 movie from releasing an “Unrated” version to get around Wal-Mart’s ban. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-like-wal-mart-and-im-not-afraid-to-admit-it/438675.md?page=4)