I like Wal-Mart, and I'm not afraid to admit it.

No, Rubbermaid got screwed over because they couldn’t deliver the product at the same price as their competitors. Rubbermaid doesn’t have some divine right to keep selling their product. If they can’t maintain an advantage of their competitors, they go out of business.

So what? If you want to make money by selling your goods in one of the largest stores around, you have to meet certain conditions. No one is forcing these companies to make the changes, but if they want something from Wal-Mart it’s not out of line for Wal Mart to demand something in return. That’s the whole concept of “trade offs” which underlies every decision we make in life.

I am amazed at the number of people that have commented proudly that they shop at Walmart.

Walmart’s business practices are disgusting. They take good companies and force them to use cheap goods and labor to make their product to keep the prices low. Not only does that mean that labor must be send out of the country, it means that a trusted name is now shit. For example, several years ago, Walmart came to Snapper (lawn mowers) and told them what they were willing to pay for their machines explaining that they couldn’t survive without selling their product toWalmart. After a couple of years, Snapper realized that the worked too hard to make a quality product and was not going to whore it out to end up losing their reputation. The same went for other nationally known brands that were forced to send jobs oversees because they would not say no to Walmart.

My objection isn’t how they treat their workers because those workers have a choice to work in the company or not. My objections are the jobs that are being taken away from people who do not have a choice.

Read Walmart. The High Cost of Low Prices and if you still want to be their customers, knock yourselves out.

I just don’t like the fluorescent lighting, the fat ladies with screaming children, but do like some of the hot husbands & dads and the gay check-out boys are amusing.

My local Wal-Mart is one of the super-ultra-mega ones and it does frequently fail to be everything, and I fall back to stores which can handle what they sell.

We quite often shop at Zellers when Wal Mart fails us (or when we’re near a Zellers) but the local Zellers is, frankly, a much worse store than the local Wal Mart. It’s inferior in every way. It’s kind of a dump. Now, in another city, that might not be the case, and we would adjust our shopping accordingly.

And why should I shop at a store just because it’s Canadian if their service and products aren’t as good?\

As for the “Wal mart demands that suppliers change the way they do business,” I can only assume you folks have never spent a lot of time in business. ALL large businesses do this, and as well they should; they have a right to place demands on suppliers. Wal Mart’s behaviour in this regard is not the slightest bit unusual or severe. I personally have customers who claim they’re actually a lot easier to deal with than Home Depot (Home Depot, in fact, is a target of venemous criticism in this regard; Wal Mart are kittens by comparison.)

And retailers are nothing. Try supplying things to the auto industry. Every company that supplies parts to an automobile manufacturer MUST be registered to TS 16949 or ISO 9001, at their expense (and it’s very, very expensive) and must do a thousand other things those companies order them to do. Companies that supply to General Dynamics have to do a whole bunch of GD-ordained shit. Virtually any large company that buys steel parts and products will tell you exactly how to organize your paperwork to prove the chemistry of the steel; if you wanna sell steel products you’d better have a hew extra filing cabinets to hold all the MTR’s. It’s de rigeur for every large corporation, and yet the suppliers are lined up to serve them, because they make huge bucks off it.

And I’m amazed at people who don’t shop at Wal Mart because they seem to lack a basic grasp of economics and business practices.

I’d like a story where anyone from Wal Mart went into a supplier with a gun and made them use cheap goods and labor.

Oh, wait, you probably mean that suppliers wanted access to the variety of customers who go to Wal Mart. Wal Mart then told them that in order to sell this product, Wal Mart wanted it at a certain price. How is that force? I see that as two businesses coming to an agreement that works for both.

Some businesses make bad business decisions. So what? Wal Mart did not force them to make those decisions. These businesses made a calculation that didn’t pay off for them. It happens every day in businesses large and small.

What jobs are these? I wasn’t aware that workers owned jobs and that when companies are no longer profitable these jobs are being somehow stolen from workers.

I’ve discovered that is very regional. Here in the Twin Cities (which is, after all Target central), WalMarts are generally dirty and disorganized. Product quality is horrible - particularly if you look at clothes which is primarily made of a fabric I wouldn’t want next to my skin. Targets tend to be cleaner, better laid out, and more accessible. Plus I can buy a shirt at Target and have it feel good against my skin and hold up for a year or so (which is all I want from Target clothes). This may have changed - I’ve darted into different WalMarts in the Twin Cities maybe five times over the past eight years - but each of those five times have reaffirmed my belief that I’d only shop WalMart out of despiration.

Now, when I was in Arizona, the WalMart I went into would stand up to any Target - it was clean, it was well laid out. It wasn’t cramped. And I didn’t feel like my IQ had dropped 50 points walking through the door. I got a shirt and one of my favorite jackets there, both have held up fine for two years. If my WalMart was that WalMart, I’d be in there all the time (well, maybe not, I live in Target Country).

Par-ty at Larry Mudd’s!!!

It must be noted that "I like Wal-Mart, and I’m not afraid to admit it. " is a rather inferior title for a rap song.

Sounds like Snapper made the right decision for their company by getting away from Wal Mart.

I suspect that a potential Wal Mart contract is sort of like crack; it’s awfully tempting to think that you’ll multiply your sales volume by 10x, and that you’ll only drop your prices Y amount… you’ll still make 8x the money as before.

The catch is, they press for lower prices each year and the same or larger volumes. Vlasic didn’t see that, and they fucked themselves by buying into Wal-Mart’s siren song. Wal-Mart didn’t screw them, they screwed themselves by signing that contract under those conditions.

And if they can’t do business without doing business with Wal-Mart under their rules, then maybe they shouldn’t be in business, or at least not in that particular one.

The business world is very Darwinian, and punishes stupidity harshly. It sucks for the lower-echelon workers when this happens, but hey; nobody owes them a job either, and it’s certainly not Wal-Mart’s fault if they get fired. It’s their own management’s fault.

My criticism of Wal*Mart is that I understand that the individual store managers are responsible for increasing the profit margins of their stores, and, as usual, they take the short-sighted, easy route of decreasing staff to increase margins. I’d be willing to pay slightly more to have a few more warm bodies working in the store. Other than that, I’d be a hypocrite to say I never shop there - we’re probably there once a week, since it’s the major department store that’s the closest to where we live.

You go there on a Saturday, RickJay? That’s just asking for trouble. :smiley:

Why? I mean, I can’t remember the last time I needed someone’s help in a Wal Mart. Why would they have more staff than they need?

In any case, I hadn’t noticed they have less staff than other big stores. Canadian Tire always seem to have a lot, but they’re unusual in that regard (and for tools, I go nowhere else but the Tire.)

Nah; the kid’s up early and has to nap at about 1, so we’re usually there at 9 or 10 AM, and it’s not very busy yet.

It’s not more staff than they need; it’s enough staff to handle the volume of customers they do get that I’m talking about. Our local Wal*Mart is notorious for long lines and few tills open; finding someone on the floor to point you in the right direction of something is extremely rare. They’ve recently gone to being open 24 hours, though, and that seems to be helping a bit.

There’s the difference; we aren’t morning people, so we’re always there at the same time as the teeming millions.

I work part-time for Wal-Mart and my husband has worked there for over 20 years. One could say that we have a unique perspective on some of the issues raised in this thread so I’d like to respond to a few of them. Pardon the length.

Regarding messy stores. There are standards that are supposed to be met as directed by corporate. If a store is messy (product not fronted, filthy floors, etc.), then the blame rests on management. If the store is old, run-down and generally shoddy, then it’s corporate’s issue. Many stores get “re-set” every few years which can include moving entire departments, replacing the flooring, remodeling the vision center, etc., and it’s ALL done while the store is open. Yes, it’s a mess and a pain in the ass. However, the re-sets are oftentimes only done in cases where the store has “earned” it by having a good customer base combined with profits. If a store is in a depressed economic area, it’s less likely to be reset.

The store we work at has a fairly good management team and the store is kept clean. Ten miles up the road is a much newer super center and since it’s closer to our house, I’ll sometimes shop there. It, too, is clean but I’ve never seen the shelves fronted in all the times I’ve shopped there. It’s a minor point. I’m just using it as an example.

Yes, store managers are responsible for increasing profit margins at store level. However, it’s the corporate office that dictates increases or decreases in staffing. If a person wants to gripe about poorly staffed stores with long lines and few open registers, complain to the corporate office. The average manager can’t do much at store level. And they’re also being hamstrung by a relatively new policy for hiring. Drug testing has been around a while (and the number of applicants that weeds out is shocking) but they’ve also started doing background checks for applicants, which further decreases the number of potential hires. I know of one case where a man was trying to get hired but failed his background check because he was behind on his child support. He was wanting to work so he could get caught up on his child support. Sadly ironic, in his case.

Hell, it’s the corporate office that controls everything, including the damned temperature of the store (and that isn’t a joke). I’m firmly convinced that a lot of directives that come down from corporate are made by yahoos that have never worked at the store level out in the real world.

As far as the benefits for associates, it’s true that they’re not bad. Part-timers do get benefits. Health, dental, 401k, Aflac and your standard STD/LTD are all offered. For retail, the benefit package isn’t too shabby even if I do have some issues with specific coverage. The starting pay, for the most part, is competitive with the area. If a shopper has complaints about the quality of the employees, while a lot of that does reflect on the store management, a great deal of that is because of corporate policy. Corporate seems to have decided that it’s better to have constant turnover in employees rather than try to retain the long-timers. It is now virtually impossible to get an “exceeds” on one’s yearly review. We have been told that it takes a regional manager’s approval and then only a certain number are permitted in a given area. They have removed the incentive for an associate to go above and beyond their normal duties. Would the average person bust their ass, doing way more than required if they’re not going to get recognition or compensation for their hard work? Not in my experience. So a store can end up with a bunch of associates that just don’t give a crap or who do only what’s required of them and that’s it.

Another example of giving the shaft to the associate (and this is the one that really angers me) is in the case of the real long term employee. My husband is one of those associates that has gone above and beyond for this company for years. In years past, he would get recognition for this with excellent yearly reviews and merit raises apart from his yearly raise. He knows the store inside and out and can run it better than a lot of management, simply because he’s been there so long (he’s not the average department manager/stocker type. His job involves having knowledge of how the store runs as well as working closely with management). But because he’s achieved “exceeds” on every review (until the new policy was started) and has received merit raises over the years, he’s making too much money for his job code based on some corporate office number-cruncher’s arbitrary figure. Thus he will no longer receive ANY raises until that arbitrary number catches up to his hourly wage. He will NOT receive ANY cost of living adjustments. Here’s a man who’s worked over two decades for this company and they have effectively said “Bend over” without even the courtesy of a reach-around. So what if the cost of living goes up? Thank God the only debt we have is our mortgage but who knows how long it’ll be until he can get another raise. Think about all those things that continue to cost more money like property taxes, gas, electricity, groceries and you might get an understanding of how frustrating this has become. He has considered leaving but how do you find something new after you’ve been with a company for so long? It’s not easy to go back out into the workforce when one is almost 50 years old. It’s been very disheartening and my opinion of the company has hit an all-time low. It’s a hell of a way to reward an associate who’s worked so long for the company.

So why do I work there? For one, I live in a little podunk town without a lot of job options. Two, I only work part-time due to medical reasons but I’m having to consider finding full-time work elsewhere as I’m increasingly nervous about our future.

Is Wal-mart evil? It’s not the worst company out there. They have some good points but, in my opinion, every year the company is moving further and further away from what Sam Walton had envisioned, chasing that almighty dollar.

Oh, and I do our grocery shopping at our local Kroger.

I shop at WalMart all the time (which may surprise some people). I have no problems with WalMart as a store; I just feel it’s a bad idea when WalMart becomes the store.

Woo hoo! We’re number one!

Oh boy, your not kidding. My wife works upstairs at a desk in Zellers on Vancouver Island and she wears her winter coat while working. Temperature is controlled from Toronto, and they bitch at requests to turn it up.

And with respect to the amount of staff, she gets a budget from Toronto for every week and she has to schedule the the hours of the employees for that week to make it fit.

I live in a city with an abundance of small boutiques, better department stores, and big discount chains, so shopping at Wal-Mart has never been the only option in town.

Wal-Mart sells cheaply made, mass produced products out of ugly cement fortresses that are erected on sprawling acres of land, all subsidized by the U.S. taxpayers. Other retailers/vendors have been forced to offshore production to compete with Wal-Mart. The number one employer in the world made its fortune exploiting overseas labor, hiring part time U.S. workers with no other options, and selling cheap junk with huge markups to American consumers. Wal-Mart suppresses small business/competition, especially in rural towns. The richest family in the world can fund research through conservative think tanks and buy Op-Eds in major newspapers to spruce up their image. What’s not to love?

Preach it brother! Nevertheless, I like Wal-Mart. The aisles are way too cluttered, the selection is ofttimes limited, but I’m a cheap bastard who gets a thrill out of remarkably low prices.

I’ll reiterate what I said earlier.

Maybe unconvential buys custom-made, hand-carved toothbrushes? Artisan paper clips? Printer paper hand-made by monks?
It’s got to be something like that.
I figure, good for you if you feel so strongly about WalMart that you are willing to pay, literally, thousands of dollars over the course of your life to shop at other stores.

It depends on what you buy. If you are buying brand name band aids, Wal-Mart sells the same. If you buy the Wal-Mart brand, quality varies (the Wal-Mart brand of dishwasher detergent is a Consumer Reports “Best Buy” so quality can vary in their own house brands). I don’t shop at Wal-Mart often, but I don’t find their brand name prices to be less than the same at Target, Walgreens or the grocery store, depending on what I am buying. I remember when I was spending a zillion dollars on diapers and someone said “Wal-Marts are cheaper” - $.25 cheaper than Targets, which I easily used in gas on the extra stop. Granted Wal-Marts house brand diapers were cheaper (so were Targets) but my kids were “off brand diaper rash” kids - so I always stuck to the same brand rather than risk having to throw away a whole pack of diapers.

Particularly when Wal-Mart has their vendors manufacture something, the quality is not always there because Wal-Mart presses for a very low price. So things like sheets and towels can be disappointing. Sometimes you are just better off paying twice as much for a garden hose that is going to last 10+ years at the hardware store than the one from WalMart, that starts leaking and cracking after a summer in the sun. And that isn’t just a WalMart problem - that’s a problem with anyone selling house brands or pressing their suppliers to get the lowest price. Wal-Mart gets the brunt of the criticism because they are the ones to popularize the “we don’t care if its crap, get the price down below $3” vendor relations and the company that really excels at it.