# I liked older Star Trek for these reasons. Will I like newer Trek? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, movies, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [March 8, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592 "2024-03-08T02:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/41 "2024-03-08T23:03:01Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Again, way too much effort on being super serious to the point of grimdark most of the time. I agree. I like grimdark and if it were a Warhammer 40K thing I’d say not dark enough. But Star Trek has never been that. It is bright and optimistic (with some dark moments to juxtapose against). The opposite of grimdark. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/42 "2024-03-08T23:04:08Z")
> [@solost](#): > > This latest season of SNW had a episode that I just found delightful (not really a spoiler, but I think it’s more fun if you find out by watching the ep). I also liked the singing episode. I thought it would be awful but…I liked it! I’ll leave it at that (if you’ve seen it, you know it). A bit too silly for me for the ST universe but I turned that part of my mind off and enjoyed it. Same with the crossover. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/43 "2024-03-08T23:24:03Z")
Strange New Worlds also brilliantly added Carol Kane for season 2. It worked amazingly well. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/44 "2024-03-08T23:35:42Z")
She is a great addition! An inspired casting choice (and her character is well written). Love her. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/45 "2024-03-08T23:51:25Z")
I’ve almost finished season 1 of _Lower Decks_ It’s pretty funny. Animation allows them to create more unusual Aliens and splatter effects. I wish they included nastier jobs like unclogging a sewage line on the ship. Meanwhile the bridge is filling with the sludge. 😉 ._Voyager_ fans will remember there was a lower decks episode. Where Janeway brings a low ranking crewman on a mission. She had a unique skill set needed for that mission. The crewman normally had a fairly mundane life on the ship. I’ve wondered if that episode inspired _Lower Decks_. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/46 "2024-03-08T23:59:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > _Voyager_ fans will remember there was a lower decks episode. Where Janeway brings a low ranking crewman on a mission. Nitpick: I think there were three of them and she takes them all on the mission. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/47 "2024-03-09T00:01:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > She is a great addition! An inspired casting choice (and her character is well written). Love her. I know _Discovery_ is not well liked but, along these lines, I also though Tig Notaro was a great casting choice in _Discovery_. I liked the show better when she had scenes to be snarky in. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/48 "2024-03-09T00:02:18Z")
Probably a dash of John Scalzi’s _Redshirts_ as well. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/49 "2024-03-09T00:07:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Nitpick: I think there were three of them and she takes them all on the mission. I’d forgotten the details. I only saw it once when the series was new. It was one of the better Voyager episodes. I need to give _The Orville_ another chance. I liked the comedy in the Pilot. Then was disappointed when the following episodes were serious. I quit watching after a few episodes. I may like the series since I’ve adjusted my expectations. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/50 "2024-03-09T00:08:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I like grimdark and if it were a Warhammer 40K thing I’d say not dark enough. Just because I’ve been chastened before, for people who don’t ‘get’ what grimdark refers to, here’s the wiki version: [Grimdark - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimdark#:~:text=Grimdark%20is%20a%20subgenre%20of,dystopian%2C%20amoral%2C%20and%20violent). > [Adam Roberts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Roberts_(British_writer)) described it as fiction “where nobody is honourable and [Might is Right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_makes_right)” Being one of the working definitions. And in Discovery, that’s pretty much all of the first season or two. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/51 "2024-03-09T00:13:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > ._Voyager_ fans will remember there was a lower decks episode. Where Janeway brings a low ranking crewman on a mission. She had a unique skill set needed for that mission. The crewman normally had a fairly mundane life on the ship. I’ve wondered if that episode inspired _Lower Decks_. Next Generation had an episode literally titled “Lower Decks.” > **[Lower Decks (episode)](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lower_Decks_(episode))** > > Junior officers speculate on the reasons for recent unusual actions taken by the command crew near the Cardassian border. Counselor Troi and Commander Riker are sitting together at a table discussing crew evaluations in Ten Forward, trying to decide... Edit to add: Scrolling down on that Memory Alpha page, I see a footnote linked to this page in which the showrunner for the Lower Decks series says the TNG episode “Lower Decks” is his single favorite episode and his takeoff point for his own series. > **[STLV19: ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Panel Talks Second Contacts, Cleaning...](https://trekmovie.com/2019/08/06/stlv19-star-trek-lower-decks-panel-talks-second-contacts-cleaning-holodecks-and-canon/)** > > Mike McMahan brought 'Lower Decks' writers to Vegas to share their show and shared fandom. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/52 "2024-03-09T00:32:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Nitpick: not right after - it takes place a few years after the end of _Voyager_, so maybe 10 years after the end of TNG. It takes place after Nemesis, when Riker is Captain of the Titan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/53 "2024-03-09T00:36:03Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > using the same actors for different characters is dumb > > Diana Muldaur, Mark Leonard! call for you! Almost as dumb as using different actors for the same roles. [/g,d,rlh] A bit more serious; none of the other Spocks have done it for me. Only Nimoy nailed the character, and when I see someone else playing him I wince involuntarily when I expect his impeccable snarky comic timing, the yes humanity he brought to the role, the gravitas, and don’t get it, to the extent I am not able to regain my suspension of disbelief. By contrast the closest would have to be Karl Urban for McCoy/Kelley. To a certain extent I can also buy Chris Pine for Kirk, but the worst definitely has to be Simon Pegg for Scotty. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/54 "2024-03-09T00:43:54Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > …but the worst definitely has to be Simon Pegg for Scotty. My main problem with Pegg wasn’t Pegg’s fault. The changes made to “how stuff works” on the ship became comical. They can now transport any distance onto moving ships? To other planets? The whole “science” of Star Trek was crapped on by J.J. Abrams. I get Star Trek is made-up science but, at least, they used to try to make it seem plausible. Now they can magic themselves anywhere, travel great distances in minutes with the ship, do whatever is needed for the story and Pegg’s Scotty is kind of a buffoon (presumably a smart buffoon). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/55 "2024-03-09T00:47:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m slowly working my way through all the Trek. I am, too. Alternating as mood hits, but I recently finished _Enterprise_ since I remembered it least. (Not nearly as bad as it gets accused of being.) I’ve watched 5 or 10 each of _TOS_ and _TNG_ and now am in mid season 2 of _DS9_. I haven’t started _Voyager_ yet, but I will. I will not be rewatching _Discovery_ or _Picard_ (now or probably ever). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/56 "2024-03-09T01:09:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > the showrunner for the Lower Decks series says the TNG episode “Lower Decks” is his single favorite episode and his takeoff point for his own series. ⁢ Which becomes very clear later on in the series. I won’t say when or how, but it’s obvious when it happens, and was mindblowing to a lot of fans who hadn’t made the connection. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Stylistically, I thought Prodigy had more in common with Star Wars than Star Trek. It felt like some kind of crossover. ⁢ I got that vibe, too, with the visuals in the first (two parter) episode, but less so once we were firmly on a Federation ship. Then you get to the difference between Star Wars which feels very lived in (and even dirty) vs the Star Trek clean aesthetic. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/57 "2024-03-09T01:13:20Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > I’m slowly working my way through all the Trek. > > I am, too. Alternating as mood hits, but I recently finished _Enterprise_ since I remembered it least. (Not nearly as bad as it gets accused of being.) I’ve watched 5 or 10 each of _TOS_ and _TNG_ and now am in mid season 2 of _DS9_. I haven’t started _Voyager_ yet, but I will. I will not be rewatching _Discovery_ or _Picard_ (now or probably ever). I watched every episode of all the Treks before Picard. I doubt I’ll go back and watch any again. Too many things in my queue. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > using the same actors for different characters is dumb > > Diana Muldaur, Mark Leonard! call for you! Recasting actors as completely different characters is something that was done routinely from the 50s on until at least the 80s. I can suspend my disbelief for that. Having Brent Spiner play every member of the Soong family even hundreds of years and dozens of generations apart makes no sense. Having Data’s “daughter” and Soong’s “daughter” look exactly alike given their origins makes no sense. Having Picard’s girlfriend look identical to the Romulan in the past makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/58 "2024-03-09T01:14:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Recasting actors as completely different characters is something that was done routinely from the 50s on until at least the 80s. Doctor Who did it best. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/59 "2024-03-09T04:19:08Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I persevered and watched all of Discovery. It wasn’t easy in the end. Still 10 more episodes to go starting April 4. It’s the feeling of almost vomiting after finishing off [the Old '96er](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_215iQ7KDs) and then being told you aren’t done until you eat all the gristle and fat. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592/60 "2024-03-09T06:18:02Z")
Just my opinions: Discovery is hit and miss. The show has great visuals but doesn’t retain much visual continuity from the previous Treks which is jarring since it is supposed to be a TOS prequel. The writing is as if someone tried writing Star Trek after having it vaguely described to them. Lower Decks is a lot of fun. I don’t agree with the idea that it isn’t Star Trek. It has so much attention to detail it is absurd. But it is a comedic take on Trek and I guess that doesn’t work for everyone. IDIC. Prodigy is better than it has any right to be. This series made me like Janeway. Picard is painful if you’re a TNG fan. It’s some weird worst possible scenario alternate future as far as I am concerned. Having said that, there are some fun bits in each season. Strange New Worlds is Trek where the showrunners said “let’s just make Star Trek” instead of trying to make it Star Trek with a twist. Beautiful show, great cast, fun stories. Short Treks was all over the place but some of them were fun. Short Short Treks were garbage and without question the worst thing ever to have the name Star Trek on it. “Worst Contact” was so disgusting I shut it off. We did not need any of those stories. The Orville did its best to out-Trek Trek and sometimes succeeded. Fun show and also very funny but equally capable of being serious as required. The Orville also had the best episode of 24 I have ever seen, the second-to-last episode of season 3. It’s also worth noting that Strange New Worlds has established that there is no “prime timeline”. Temporal shenanigans have made spaghetti of the timeline but certain events always happen even if not exactly in the same fashion. That’s why the same TOS crew ends up together in the JJ Abrams movies and that is why SNW aims to line up with TOS but isn’t always a perfect match. So if you find the various different visual continuities to be discordant, this is not a bug but a feature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-liked-older-star-trek-for-these-reasons-will-i-like-newer-trek/998592.md?page=4)