# I listened to The Odyssey, the Wilson translation **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2026, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176 "2026-08-06T01:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2026, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/61 "2026-08-15T21:50:46Z")
Fair enough! I think my associations may have been shaped by _A Little Princess_, a book that I read way too many times as a kid 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2026, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/62 "2026-08-15T22:59:25Z")
Interesting. “Papa” sounds hoity toity to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2026, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/63 "2026-08-15T23:14:10Z")
To my ear, “Daddy” is used only by either kindergarteners or below, or by trust fund babies of any age. But “Papa” could be used by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/64 "2026-08-16T00:17:31Z")
Hmm, I’d go a little older, but that’s true. I suppose “Dad” is the common American word. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2026, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/65 "2026-08-16T00:53:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To my ear, “Daddy” is used only by either kindergarteners or below, or by trust fund babies of any age. And Southerners. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2026, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/66 "2026-08-16T03:32:06Z")
And orphans. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2026, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/67 "2026-08-16T05:59:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s a lot wordier than “sausages”, though. “Haggis”, maybe, even though it’s not quite exactly the same? Robert Graves’ prose fiction _Homer’s Daughter_, a sort of _”the-true-story-the-Odyssey-might-be-based-on-if-the-Odyssey-were-based-on-a-true-story”_ reworking, uses “goat haggis” for this purpose. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2026, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/68 "2026-08-16T07:52:10Z")
And twinks. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/69 "2026-08-17T11:11:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Robert Graves’ prose fiction _Homer’s Daughter_, a sort of _”the-true-story-the-Odyssey-might-be-based-on-if-the-Odyssey-were-based-on-a-true-story”_ reworking, uses “goat haggis” for this purpose. If Wilson’s translation is strictly accurate, there’s a big difference between “goat stomach stuffed with dried blood and fat” and haggis. Haggis is made from the _Pluck_ (wonderful word – it means the heart, liver and lungs of an animal. When someone compliments you on your “pluck” they’re complimenting you on the quality of your internal organs. Kinda like saying “you’ve got guts”, only with different internal parts) cut up and mixed with oats and spices. The only way goat-stomach sausage resembles haggis is that they’re both an animal’s stomach (different animals, though) stuffed with animal parts (different animals) and cooked in an oven or over a fire. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/70 "2026-08-17T11:41:01Z")
The liver and heart are both blood-handling organs, and probably taste similar in a sausage to just plain blood. I’ve never had lung (it’s illegal to serve it to humans in the US) but I’m told it doesn’t add much in the way of distinctive flavor. I suppose goat fat is a lot richer than oats, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/71 "2026-08-17T12:15:24Z")
OK, then, how about saying that the beggars were offered a prize of offal? That’s not as specific a term, but it is accurate, and conveys that what they were being offered wasn’t worth much (except to a starving beggar). ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/72 "2026-08-17T12:25:29Z")
It gives the wrong impression, i think. A cooked meaty product is a nice thing to get. The goat stomach was intentionally stuffed with blood and fat, both things worth eating. Offal might be unwanted, or raw, or even old and spoiled, and might be something you throw at a bad act to get it off stage. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/73 "2026-08-17T12:38:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > The liver and heart are both blood-handling organs, and probably taste similar in a sausage to just plain blood. Heart and liver tasted nothing alike. Heart is a muscle, and tastes pretty much like the muscle meat of the animal in question, finer grained and a tiny bit of organ taste. It handles blood, in that blood flows through its chambers, but the muscle itself isn’t more vascularized than other muscles. Liver isn’t a muscle, and tastes irony/minerally, and has a completely different texture. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/74 "2026-08-17T12:54:37Z")
I’ve eaten both. Liver tastes strongly of blood. It’s also delicious. The heart is packed with myoglobin and also has a stronger “iron” taste than regular muscle tissue. Are they different? Of course they are. And liver can be soft and melting whereas heart is chewy. But ground up and shoved into a sausage with other stuff? They are both adding flavor notes similar to adding clotted blood to the sausage. (And yes, I’ve also eaten blood sausage.) Is “haggis” exactly the same as “stomach stuffed with fat and blood”? Of course not. But both convey “a food product made of less desirable parts”. And if they taste extremely different, it’s probably largely due to the “oats and seasoning” in the haggis. I’d probably like haggis, but I’ve never had it. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/75 "2026-08-17T13:33:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Interesting. “Papa” sounds hoity toity to me. I think it comes down to where you place the emphasis: on the _pa_ or the _pa_. Or, wait, that is, the _first pa_ or the _second pa_. Pápa vs. papá. The second sounds hoity toity to me. The first sounds childish but unpretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/76 "2026-08-17T13:38:49Z")
It occurs to me that we’re missing some context, here. In the culture at the time, how would a goat’s stomach stuffed with fat and blood have been regarded? Was Odysseus going “Yum, stuffed stomach, just like Mom used to make! In the ten years I’ve been gone, this is what I missed the most!”, or was it “Ugh, stuffed stomach. Well, maybe if we boil it long enough, the dog will be willing to get rid of it for us.”? If it’s the former, then maybe “sausages” is the best translation, after all (not literally accurate, but reflecting the role the dish would have in local cuisine). If the latter, then “offal” works better. Or of course, probably somewhere in between. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/77 "2026-08-17T13:46:55Z")
And that comes right back around to translator choices, including the particular choice of words or phrases to convey not just the literal meanings of words but author intent and the cultural context of the work in the first place ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/78 "2026-08-17T13:49:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To my ear, “Daddy” is used only by either kindergarteners or below, or by trust fund babies of any age. It’s true there aren’t any trust fund babies in the Odyssey, but Princess Naussica, into whose lips the offending diminutive has been placed, seems like a pretty fair equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/79 "2026-08-17T13:55:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It occurs to me that we’re missing some context, here. In the culture at the time, how would a goat’s stomach stuffed with fat and blood have been regarded? Was Odysseus going “Yum, stuffed stomach, just like Mom used to make! In the ten years I’ve been gone, this is what I missed the most!” Probably something like this. The suitors make it clear that they had the stuff made up for themselves, and the language is clearly trying to “sell” it as a desirable prize - “glistening with fat”, and so on. As i say, I have usually encountered this translated as “sausage”, and I like that Wilson used the longer and (to modern ears, at least) less palatable description as “goat stomachs stuffed with blood and fat” because it lays out what it really was. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176/80 "2026-08-17T13:56:49Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Pápa vs. papá. The second sounds hoity toity to me. The first sounds childish but unpretentious. The German pronunciation sounds like Pappa, with no particular stress on either syllable, and that’s how I as a 58 year old have always addressed my now 90 year old father. Papa with the stress on the second syllable is just the French pronunciation, but French for some reason tends to sound hoity toity to speakers of Germanic languages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-listened-to-the-odyssey-the-wilson-translation/1032176.md?page=5)