# I Loaaaaaathee modern car design all and the reason therefore.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136 "2008-10-29T20:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/1 "2008-10-29T20:06:24Z")
…I pit Henry Ford, Opec, The laws of aerodynamics, The laws of friction, and whatever the name of the Guy who went to Japan in the 70’s as an Auto industry advisor, the Internal combustion engine, Charles Goodyear, Nitrogen and every other goddamn person or cocksucking thing that is responsible for the shitty cramped engine compartment in my 97 Contour that requires 12 inch long 1mm diameter fingers, a magic screwdriver,and prehensile pliers of Titan strength to try to replace one fucking manifold vacuum line that decided to crumble this morning. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/2 "2008-10-29T20:40:26Z")
What, you don’t have leprechauns to work on your car? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/3 "2008-10-29T20:45:09Z")
Just think of this as an opportunity to buy a new tool: a model 154-G-12-1mm vacuum line replacing tool, $59 direct from Ford. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/4 "2008-10-29T21:19:41Z")
The other big reason to dislike modern cars is the fact that they’re marketed primarily by the number of added features. Heated seats, sensors that unlock the car when you approach, powered seat adjusters, powered fucking trunk closers, etc. In my view, most of those features are not only unnecessary, but they add undesireable complication that eventually requires costly repairs. Give me a standard shift with roll-down windows that gets 40 mpg, like my Saturn. Reliable, minimal repairs ever needed. Unfortunately, this will be my last Saturn. They are getting away from simplicity, and their service department has nose-dived. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/5 "2008-10-29T21:33:55Z")
That’s an excellent idea, **beowulff**. There have been a couple times when I wasted hours damning everybody from Carl Benz on before I broke down and bought the RIGHT tool. Yeah, it’s a racket, but the right tool can make your life easier. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/6 "2008-10-29T22:17:21Z")
Unforunately there is no tool that can help me(outside of a Magic Mini Robot Monkey) The procedure is simple “tab a into slot a” stuff. But I can’t reach anywhere near Tab a without disassembling half the damn engine block. P.S. I now have the most redneck rigged Engine in the state, I finally ended up Duct-taping some acrylic Aquarium tubing as a splice on the only two areas of the damn line I can reach, just so I can maintain idle. And it’s going to be like that until the weekend it seems. :smack: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/7 "2008-10-29T22:35:25Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Unforunately there is no tool that can help me(outside of a Magic Mini Robot Monkey) The procedure is simple “tab a into slot a” stuff. But I can’t reach anywhere near Tab a without disassembling half the damn engine block. > > P.S. I now have the most redneck rigged Engine in the state, I finally ended up Duct-taping some acrylic Aquarium tubing as a splice on the only two areas of the damn line I can reach, just so I can maintain idle. And it’s going to be like that until the weekend it seems. :smack: :mad: To quote a famous politician: I feel your pain. I had to take off both valve covers of my F350 Diesel, an both of them have bolts that are almost completely, but not entirely, inaccessible. My only suggestion (other than the not-entirely-facetious one to buy the special tool), is to maybe try it from a different location, like under the engine. Sometimes it’s possible to do these things from an unexpected position. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/8 "2008-10-29T22:54:45Z")
[QUOTE=wolfman] …engine compartment in my 97 Contour that requires 12 inch long 1mm diameter fingers, a magic screwdriver,and prehensile pliers of Titan strength to try to replace one fucking manifold vacuum line that decided to crumble this morning. :mad: [/QUOTE] Not that Ford has a monopoly on service-hostile designs, but my happily long-gone Taurus was built in such a way that it’s almost easier to get a hoist and pull the engine in order to reach the spark plugs. It’s rumored that if a mechanic mated with a gymnast, their baby would be able to reach the plugs with a long flex-shaft wrench. Presumably, there was a special tool in their Rotunda catalog for this. Of course, by the time you’ve pulled the engine, it might be easier to buy a long block and just swap the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/9 "2008-10-29T23:33:19Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I had to take off both valve covers of my F350 Diesel I’ve had a beer or two, so when I read that at first I thought “WTF? Ferrari make a diesel?!” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/10 "2008-10-30T01:44:18Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > The other big reason to dislike modern cars is the fact that they’re marketed primarily by the number of added features. Heated seats, sensors that unlock the car when you approach, powered seat adjusters, powered fucking trunk closers, etc. > > In my view, most of those features are not only unnecessary, but they add undesireable complication that eventually requires costly repairs. > > Give me a standard shift with roll-down windows that gets 40 mpg, like my Saturn. Reliable, minimal repairs ever needed. > > Unfortunately, this will be my last Saturn. They are getting away from simplicity, and their service department has nose-dived. hehe, my first car out of college was an old Kia Sportage. Power Windows and steering but nothing else, and a stick shift. Of course, the back right window’s motored died almost instantly, but everything else worked like a charm. Bought the thing for just under $3000 expecting it to last me a year, maybe two, before falling to pieces. Thing lasted almost 4 years with with just one minor repair needed (cost me about $400 I think, though I don’t remember what it was). Sold it for $2300. Gods bless simplicity. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/11 "2008-10-30T05:56:23Z")
I thought this rant was going to be about the modern car design of reducing the size of all the windows. Cause, you know, seeing out of your car windows is like the LAST thing you need to do. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/12 "2008-10-30T10:25:28Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Unforunately there is no tool that can help me(outside of a Magic Mini Robot Monkey) The procedure is simple “tab a into slot a” stuff. But I can’t reach anywhere near Tab a without disassembling half the damn engine block. > > P.S. I now have the most redneck rigged Engine in the state, I finally ended up Duct-taping some acrylic Aquarium tubing as a splice on the only two areas of the damn line I can reach, just so I can maintain idle. And it’s going to be like that until the weekend it seems. :smack: :mad: Oh, I get it. You missed the first instruction: Pull engine A out of Truck B. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/13 "2008-10-30T13:57:24Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > ..I pit Henry Ford, Opec, The laws of aerodynamics, The laws of friction, and whatever the name of the Guy who went to Japan in the 70’s as an Auto industry advisor, the Internal combustion engine, Charles Goodyear, Nitrogen and every other goddamn person or cocksucking thing that is responsible for the shitty cramped engine compartment in my 97 Contour that requires 12 inch long 1mm diameter fingers, a magic screwdriver,and prehensile pliers of Titan strength to try to replace one fucking manifold vacuum line that decided to crumble this morning. :mad: You forgot the part about only being able to reach it with your left hand… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/14 "2008-10-30T16:30:54Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Give me a standard shift with roll-down windows that gets 40 mpg, like my Saturn. Reliable, minimal repairs ever needed.. I had one of those, and your milage estimates are very optimistic. You know, I had a 1972 Datsun PU. It was very simple to fix- and it needed to be, as I was constantly replacing this or that. Getting a car to 100K miles was huge. I just sold my 2000 Saturn SC2, with 100K miles and it never needed any _repairs_, just maintenence. ---
**Author:** ![Albrecht\_Durer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@Albrecht\_Durer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albrecht_Durer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/15 "2008-10-30T19:05:18Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > The other big reason to dislike modern cars is the fact that they’re marketed primarily by the number of added features. Heated seats, sensors that unlock the car when you approach, powered seat adjusters, powered fucking trunk closers, etc. > > In my view, most of those features are not only unnecessary, but they add undesireable complication that eventually requires costly repairs. > > Give me a standard shift with roll-down windows that gets 40 mpg, like my Saturn. Reliable, minimal repairs ever needed. > > Unfortunately, this will be my last Saturn. They are getting away from simplicity, and their service department has nose-dived. I agree wholeheartedly. It seems like all this crap comes standard and, frankly, I don’t want it. If you’re not important enough to be in the passenger seat, you don’t get an airbag (that was only partly a joke). What really pisses me off though is that, apart from MINI, cars aren’t nearly as customizable as they should be. Everything comes in trim levels, where to get the two things you want, you have to get eight things you don’t. Want GPS? Well, you’ll need to take a spoiler. Want the better engine? You have to get Sirius radio. I’m looking at getting a Mazda RX-8 or, if I wait long enough, the new Camaro in the spring, and I don’t want Sirius, but I’ll have to get it to get the damn GPS or, in the RX-8’s case, the freakin’ moonroof. Also, Alfa Romeo pushed their re-entry into the US market back until 2011. A good business decision, yeah, but I was really hoping they’d sell the Fiat 500 here. So fuck them. Also, Ford is planning on bring some of the Euro models into the US in 2010. A good move in the right direction but not their freakin’ Euro-spec Focus? That’s they’re best car! Crap for crap! ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/16 "2008-10-30T19:37:47Z")
My first car was a 1996 Ford Contour. According to my then-husband, it was the most difficult, stupidly-designed-for-access car he ever had to work with. You have my sympathies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/17 "2008-10-30T19:56:07Z")
> [@Albrecht\_Durer](#): > > I agree wholeheartedly. It seems like all this crap comes standard and, frankly, I don’t want it. If you’re not important enough to be in the passenger seat, you don’t get an airbag (that was only partly a joke). > What really pisses me off though is that, apart from MINI, cars aren’t nearly as customizable as they should be. Everything comes in trim levels, where to get the two things you want, you have to get eight things you don’t. Want GPS? Well, you’ll need to take a spoiler. Want the better engine? You have to get Sirius radio. _My_ Volvo C30 did not come with “Heated seats, sensors that unlock the car when you approach, powered seat adjusters, powered fucking trunk closers”. And, it’s completely customizable in build. ---
**Author:** ![Albrecht\_Durer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@Albrecht\_Durer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albrecht_Durer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/18 "2008-10-30T20:10:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _My_ Volvo C30 did not come with “Heated seats, sensors that unlock the car when you approach, powered seat adjusters, powered fucking trunk closers”. And, it’s completely customizable in build. Oooh, and going to the Volvo website to see the options showed me that the C30 is super nice and in my price range. My decision just got a bit trickier… ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/19 "2008-10-30T20:13:50Z")
I’d like to poke that genius who designed the key fobs to set off the alarm every time you sit down with the key fob in your pocket. My neighbors are getting a little tired of my horn honking all the time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136/20 "2008-10-30T20:35:17Z")
> [@Albrecht\_Durer](#): > > Oooh, and going to the Volvo website to see the options showed me that the C30 is super nice and in my price range. My decision just got a bit trickier… And, if you get one off the lot (like I did) your choice of options will be few (moonroof, std or auto) but the dealer should give you an _incredible_ deal. I got mine for $500 below invoice, you might be able to do better. 2008. Now, if you are open to traveling, you can custom order yours, and go to Sweden to pick it up- you basicly get a free Swedish vacation out of it. I really like the car, there’s a C30 MB [also.C30World.com](http://also.C30World.com) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-loaaaaaathee-modern-car-design-all-and-the-reason-therefore/470136.md?page=2)