# I lost a friend and co-worker **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 27, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695 "2018-02-27T20:02:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/21 "2018-02-28T00:16:30Z")
that’s terrible, I’m sorry for your loss Czarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/22 "2018-02-28T01:54:12Z")
My condolences to you and to his family. And yes we should have a better safety net. Medicare and Social Security are something but I’d agree not enough for those who have not saved amply or who have outlived their savings. But I’ll risk sounding like the asshole here. Would this had been less of a tragedy if instead of your 83 year old friend a 45 year old person you did not know was senselessly and brutally murdered while on the job just “checking locks and making sure things are secure”? It was a senseless brutal crime. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/23 "2018-02-28T03:42:41Z")
My condolences. > [@DSeid](#): > > But I’ll risk sounding like the asshole here. Would this had been less of a tragedy if instead of your 83 year old friend a 45 year old person you did not know was senselessly and brutally murdered while on the job just “checking locks and making sure things are secure”? Well done. I am tempted to add that the event doesn’t meet the classic definition of tragedy with which I am most familiar. Instead, I’ll just say, to the friends and family of the 45 year old, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/24 "2018-02-28T04:26:34Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Serious question though, do you folk not have an ‘Aged Pension’ or similar for people who don’t have other retirement funds? IOW, how come Ben was still working at an age when he should have been sitting in front of the telly and dozing with his warm slippers on? Once, during a town hall meeting, a little old lady told then President Dubya Bush that she had to work three jobs just to survive, and the Shrub gushed over her wonderful American work ethic. These are the kind of clueless creatures that are ruling our lives. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/25 "2018-02-28T04:51:09Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > My condolences to you and to his family. And yes we should have a better safety net. Medicare and Social Security are something but I’d agree not enough for those who have not saved amply or who have outlived their savings. > > But I’ll risk sounding like the asshole here. Would this had been less of a tragedy if instead of your 83 year old friend a 45 year old person you did not know was senselessly and brutally murdered while on the job just “checking locks and making sure things are secure”? > > It was a senseless brutal crime. If he was 45 years old, I would still be grieving…but I wouldn’t be pissed off that he still had to work at his age, and/or that he had to be put in such danger at his age. And if I grieved as much for all the 45 year olds that I _don’t_ personally know whose lives ended as tragically, I would be sitting here screaming through the night. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/26 "2018-02-28T05:20:15Z")
How horrible. I’m so sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/27 "2018-02-28T05:42:26Z")
Wow; that is a terrible, terrible thing that happened to Mr. Lyons. My condolences to you, **Czarcasm** and to his wife, his other family and his friends. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/28 "2018-02-28T06:12:32Z")
That really sucks. My condolences, **Czarcasm**. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/29 "2018-02-28T06:53:00Z")
That’s horrendous. I’m so sorry, **Czarcasm** , and my heart goes out to his loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![X.L.Lent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a5b964/32.png) [@X.L.Lent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X.L.Lent)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/30 "2018-02-28T07:05:21Z")
My condolences, Czarcasm. What a horrible thing to happen to your friend. I wonder too why he was still working. Some people continue to work after reaching retirement age because they want to, not because they need the money. It might sound nice to sit around the house and watch T.V. but after a few weeks or months most of us would probably become bored. Hope they find the person who did this terrible thing. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/31 "2018-02-28T07:45:37Z")
This is horrifying, **Czarcasm**. I echo your anger. We need to do much better. I’m so sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/32 "2018-02-28T12:37:36Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Serious question though, do you folk not have an ‘Aged Pension’ or similar for people who don’t have other retirement funds? IOW, how come Ben was still working at an age when he should have been sitting in front of the telly and dozing with his warm slippers on? We have “Social Security” which pays around $1200 a month for a single income worker once you hit retirement age, which is only enough to scrape by on without another job/pension/savings in unusual circumstances. You’d need some combination of living in a cheap part of the country, owning your own house, and low medical expenses. It’s the equivalent of a (slightly more than) minimum wage job, which young people, who already have low medical expenses, find it hard to make do with. Plus, some people might not even get $1200 a month because it’s based on past earnings. Upper middle class people get slightly more than that, and lower middle class people get slightly less. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/33 "2018-02-28T16:44:33Z")
> [@X.L.Lent](#): > > I wonder too why he was still working. Some people continue to work after reaching > retirement age because they want to, not because they need the money. It might > sound nice to sit around the house and watch T.V. but after a few weeks or months > most of us would probably become bored. That crossed my mind too. I guess **Czarcasm** knows him well enough to know that that’s not the case here. But the current version of the OP’s link does say > [@](#): > > “He was pretty much married to his job,” Frances Lyons said. “He was rambunctious and energetic.” It sounded like his employer didn’t expect this to be a dangerous job. > [@](#): > > “It just defies logic that somebody would take that action for no apparent reason,” Rice said. “It just doesn’t happen. We’re not front line, we’re not law enforcement. We’re checking locks and making sure things are secure.” They may have to rethink that. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/34 "2018-03-01T00:37:39Z")
Or not. (People are killed senselessly in all sorts of jobs that are not in general dangerous and even just walking down the street.) But for discussion accept that it should be considered one. Let’s assume that Mr. Lyons needed to work for the money. No one forced him to take that specific job. He applied for it and was hired. Should the company have not been allowed to hire an older man for the job? Obviously the company did not foresee the risk of some crazed idiots killing an unarmed night watchman on patrol checking the locks, but should they be deciding that it is better to put a younger person at that risk and that an older person who needs or wants the work should have their application declined? I feel for Czarcasm’s loss. _And the tragedy did not occur because his friend was old_. If Mr. Lyons was a 45 year old on that job running into whoever it was doing whatever when on patrol (a drug deal going down? who knows?) he’d still have been just as dead and his loss would be the same tragedy. If the job was patrolling a portion of the industrial park that contained truck parts and making sure it was secured ready to call in any activity that looked suspicious then being armed would not really be considered necessary and most truck part thieves are not interested in killing for the parts. And if dealing with someone or ones who are willing to kill if discovered then being younger or maybe even being armed would not likely likely helped too much. The senselessness and tragicness of someone on a simple night patrol being murdered are unquestionable. The specific anger that the night watchman was older and shouldn’t have been “let” work that job? That part I don’t get. Angry that some older Americans have to work to be able to afford a very basic lifestyle? Fine. That’s the case for greeters at Walmart and older Americans working at McDonalds too. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/35 "2018-03-01T03:11:22Z")
I guess I don’t understand why you’re stuck on this,\*\* DSeid\*\*. Tragic is tragic. If **Czarcasm** ’s friend had been 45, there would’ve been a tragic aspect to his death then, too. He was a father, brother, son, didn’t have a family, etc. That this fellow was 83 is just a detail of his life and doesn’t diminish anyone else’s death. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/36 "2018-03-01T03:22:52Z")
If I may presume: DSeid, this is a condolence and vent thread. Your comments are insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/37 "2018-03-01T03:57:38Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I guess I don’t understand why you’re stuck on this,\*\* DSeid\*\*. Tragic is tragic. If **Czarcasm** ’s friend had been 45, there would’ve been a tragic aspect to his death then, too. He was a father, brother, son, didn’t have a family, etc. That this fellow was 83 is just a detail of his life and doesn’t diminish anyone else’s death. > [@j666](#): > > If I may presume: > > DSeid, this is a condolence and vent thread. Your comments are insensitive. **Helena330** the age was not presented merely as a detail about his life but as a reason for being “very pissed off”: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > What other civilized country on earth makes those over 80 work a full-time job just to survive? > What other civilized country would let someone over 80 work in such a dangerous situation in the middle of the night, unarmed? Others jumped right in making this a political commentary thread. I offer my condolences and I agree with venting about those who cruelly took another’s life. But that’s not what the op is angry and venting about **j666**. Blaming this specific tragic event on our government not providing adequately for the elderly without savings and suggesting that the elderly should not be _let_ work such jobs … sorry that that rubbed me the wrong way. The two have nothing to do with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/38 "2018-03-01T04:09:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I offer my condolences and I agree with venting about those who cruelly took another’s life. But that’s not what the op is angry and venting about **j666**. Blaming this specific tragic event on our government not providing adequately for the elderly without savings and suggesting that the elderly should not be _let_ work such jobs … sorry that that rubbed me the wrong way. The two have nothing to do with each other. [”Son, just don’t.”](https://tenor.com/view/son-just-dont-captain-america-chris-evans-gif-5705357) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/39 "2018-03-01T04:44:57Z")
Stop. This is not about you. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695/40 "2018-03-01T06:27:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am upset, but I am also very pissed off. What other civilized country on earth makes those over 80 work a full-time job just to survive? > What other civilized country would let someone over 80 work in such a dangerous situation in the middle of the night, unarmed? Did he need to or did he want to? My grandfather worked until the day he died at 86 years old. He was healthy, he loved being there and he had no interest in sitting around the house doing nothing all day long. I know quite a few other people that work(ed) until they were physically or mentally unable to do it any longer. Sure, some do it for the money or insurance, but some do it almost as a hobby. The article made it sound like he enjoyed working. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-friend-and-co-worker/809695.md?page=3)