# I lost a potential student today.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 5, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471 "2007-08-05T01:10:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/61 "2007-08-06T22:13:46Z")
Was I taking him to task? I didn’t think so. If I was, that was the mildest hauling to the woodshed I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/62 "2007-08-06T22:16:20Z")
Just wanted to point out that I don’t really think learning Tae Kwon Do is really contradictory to a Christian “turn the other cheek” mentality. I’ve been led to believe that most martial arts training puts a heavy focus on discipline and not using the martial arts unless necessary. If that is correct, then going through martial arts training would make the adherent less likely to get into stupid fights, and make “turning the other cheek” more likely. As far as the OP goes, from what has been reported, Clothahump responded with admirable restraint, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/63 "2007-08-06T22:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] “Ma’am, people’s religious problems are their own.” Why state right off the bat that it is a problem when it isn’t? [/QUOTE] Good point. The word “problem” has undesired negative connotations and should be avoided. He should’ve said “Ma’am, people’s religious _challenges_ are their own.” That is, if I’m remembering my _Business Communication for Doubletalking Management Consultant Slimeballs_ coursebook accurately. I don’t know if it went down like this, but here’s how I’d like to picture it: Mom: “Oh dear Lord. Come on, kids, we are in a place of evil.” Kids: “Not _another_ one? Aww, mom!” _\_ ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/64 "2007-08-06T23:27:42Z")
Hey, I’m an Episcopalian Sunday School teacher, and I go twice a week to karate(Hawaiian Kempo) practice. Does this mean I’m damned? We bow to the sensei and the school emblem on the wall. At the end of the practice we also bow to the senior student present. Karate is fun! I’m kind of a slow learner, but the instructors at my dojo are very patient, and never put you down. Anyone who says that place is evil needs to come and watch first. Geez, lady, was your faith so weak that you didn’t think your little grasshoppers could withstand the eeeeeeviiiiilllll influence? On the subject of Christianity and the martial arts, I really encourage you to check out this article that appeared in our local paper less than a month ago. It had our senseis very puzzled, as to how a guy could get to be a third degree blackbelt with the attitude this dude had. [http://cjonline.com/stories/071407/rel\_184314687.shtml](http://cjonline.com/stories/071407/rel_184314687.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/65 "2007-08-06T23:46:17Z")
[QUOTE=Taber] Just wanted to point out that I don’t really think learning Tae Kwon Do is really contradictory to a Christian “turn the other cheek” mentality. I’ve been led to believe that most martial arts training puts a heavy focus on discipline and not using the martial arts unless necessary. If that is correct, then going through martial arts training would make the adherent less likely to get into stupid fights, and make “turning the other cheek” more likely. [/QUOTE] Missed the edit window! This is exactly the way the dojo I attend is. Fights are _dangerous_, and what we learn is how to defend ourselves, and make an escape if possible, not to set out looking to kick someone’s butt. We are told repeatedly “Your voice is your best weapon.” Learning how to act with confidence, and not act like a potential victim. How to yell “Back off!” and other simple self-defense techniques, as well as the katas and fighting drills. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/66 "2007-08-07T01:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Was I taking him to task? I didn’t think so. If I was, that was the mildest hauling to the woodshed I’ve ever seen. [/QUOTE] I’m mostly amused by your creation of a Code of Proper Conduct for businesses. Gotta admit, you’re one of the last people I’d have expected to see such a thing from. Maybe it can be expanded to include things like staying within the law with respect to honoring workers’ attempts to organize, rather than breaking the laws and absorbing the minuscule fines? Or not lobbying to be protected from competition? Not suing ordinary citizens for speaking out against them? Y’know, _real_ stuff. Or maybe the **Mr. Moto** Business Behavior Code is to business what WWJD was to Christianity - only to apply to the small stuff, rather than war and whatnot. Yeah, I expect that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/67 "2007-08-07T02:39:49Z")
I’m surprised I’m agreeing with **Mr. Moto**. Really, really surprised. I don’t remember it happening before. But substituting the word “beliefs” for “problems” probably would have ended the same way, and the woman would have been just as nuts and wrong, and the OP would have been right-er. Also, someone like me (who has what the OP considers a “religious problem” though perhaps onlya mild one) might have overheard the conversation and thought both that the woman was nuts and also that they weren’t really welcome at that dojo, either. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/68 "2007-08-07T13:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I’m mostly amused by your creation of a Code of Proper Conduct for businesses. Gotta admit, you’re one of the last people I’d have expected to see such a thing from. [/QUOTE] Why would I need to do so? Most businesses already insist on proper conduct. Every company and government agency I have ever worked for has policies put in place for various matters - and religious tolerance and nondiscrimination are explicitly mentioned. Even the small shopkeeper who gave me a part time job in college had a clause on the application with this kind of language. More importantly, though, he served every one of the customers of his diverse neighborhood with admirable fairness, which counts far more than words on paper. So I wonder why you’d object so much to this. All it was was a little observation, and in no way a defense of an abusive customer. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/69 "2007-08-07T19:02:23Z")
[QUOTE=Baker] [http://cjonline.com/stories/071407/rel\_184314687.shtml](http://cjonline.com/stories/071407/rel_184314687.shtml) [/QUOTE] I read the article, but I don’t understand what you mean. [QUOTE=Baker] It had our senseis very puzzled, as to how a guy could get to be a third degree blackbelt with the attitude this dude had. [/QUOTE] What about his attitude makes it doubtful that he could have achieved third degree blackbelt? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/70 "2007-08-07T19:17:23Z")
[QUOTE=Taber] Just wanted to point out that I don’t really think learning Tae Kwon Do is really contradictory to a Christian “turn the other cheek” mentality. I’ve been led to believe that most martial arts training puts a heavy focus on discipline and not using the martial arts unless necessary. If that is correct, then going through martial arts training would make the adherent less likely to get into stupid fights, and make “turning the other cheek” more likely. As far as the OP goes, from what has been reported, Clothahump responded with admirable restraint, I thought. [/QUOTE] With only one exception, all martial arts practitioners I’ve known were less likely to get into fights because of it. And that one exception is one of those guys who are so dumb and irrational that they make the gas tank cap look like a superb example of humanity by comparison. **oft wears hats** , that guy thought of martial arts as merely “training to beat people up.” Which means he hadn’t understood Lesson 1. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/71 "2007-08-07T19:46:59Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] With only one exception, all martial arts practitioners I’ve known were less likely to get into fights because of it. And that one exception is one of those guys who are so dumb and irrational that they make the gas tank cap look like a superb example of humanity by comparison. **oft wears hats** , that guy thought of martial arts as merely “training to beat people up.” Which means he hadn’t understood Lesson 1. [/QUOTE] Ah, I didn’t quite get that full vibe when I read the article. Looking at it again, I can see that he had that mentality at least before he became a Christian. [quote=CJOnline] The third-degree black belt didn’t feel comfortable using them to hurt others or to compete in tournaments. [quote] I originally interpreted that as “he didn’t feel comfortable using them to hurt others as a means of self defense.” But then again, reading the rest of the article does suggest that the self-defense angle is what got him back into it. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/72 "2007-08-07T19:50:02Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] Their motto is “when they turn the other cheek, kick them in the face”. [/QUOTE] If there’s a hell, I’m _so_ going there for laughing as hard as I did. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/73 "2007-08-07T21:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Why would I need to do so? [/quote] You realize, of course, that this question, in response to what you quoted, makes no sense. None. ‘I wouldn’t have expected you to do that.’ ‘Why would I need to do so?’ My point exactly. Why would you have needed to, why would you have wanted to? > [@](#): > > So I wonder why you’d object so much to this. All it was was a little observation I object to your saying things that appear to be either bullshit opinions, or demonstrably false ‘facts.’ One problem is your assumption that _because he’s a businessperson_, **Clothahump** ought to abide by a certain pre-existing ‘business code of conduct’ - that he’s not just risking losing a customer or two (which is his choice), but that he’s somehow _in the wrong_, that he’s violating social and cultural norms of the business world. > [@Mr. Moto @57](#): > > certain opinions ought not be expressed in a business environment, where we truly all have to get along. Businesses in our culture quite often behave quite ruthlessly: to each other, to their customers, to their employees, to ordinary citizens who happen to be in the way. I’ve seen little if any evidence that “we truly all have to get along” in a business environment, and with the exception of certain legally actionable ones, even less evidence that “certain opinions” are off-limits in that world. Another problem I have is that you seem to be saying that people in business environments _ought_ to play nice, so to speak, but I’m skeptical that that means anything substantive _even to you_, but rather only covers trivial situations like the one described in the OP. A code of business ethics that says “don’t be critical of a person’s religion, but feel free to drive that same person into bankruptcy” is an interesting code. I’m trying to sort out what you mean here. I think this says a great deal about you. You’ve spent long, tedious pages of threads turning discussions about Edwards or Giuliani into discussions about me and whether I’ve been inconsistent or hypocritical. I’m sure you see the virtue in a complementary discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/74 "2007-08-07T22:39:14Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] Mom asks if we start classes with a prayer. [/QUOTE] “Of course we will – provided you write your check with gnu’s blood, and your checks are made from the skin of a Tunisian virgin. Oh, and we only will take check# 666, or a multiple thereof.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/75 "2007-08-07T23:08:44Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Which means he hadn’t understood Lesson 1. [/QUOTE] Never attack a defenseless old man? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/76 "2007-08-08T01:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Was I taking him to task? I didn’t think so. If I was, that was the mildest hauling to the woodshed I’ve ever seen. [/QUOTE] Why bring it up at all? It seems picayune and somewhat officious, not to mention irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/77 "2007-08-08T02:36:52Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] No, [_this_ guy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfkHkdu5IEI)! [/QUOTE] Oh, thanks - I just spit Diet Coke all over the keyboard on that one!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/78 "2007-08-08T02:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I would never defend this woman’s horrid behavior, and your attitude in general about not mixing business with religion is to be commended. However, you do reveal your antireligious bias when you describe prayer as someone’s “religious problem” rather than the positive force most of us understand it to be. Had you used a neutral word rather than one with a negative connotation, there are very few people who would have anything bad to say about your message at all. A nitpick, I know. But you as a businessman have to deal with all sorts of people, so I thought you might want to be aware of that. [/QUOTE] Actually, the term “problem” is one that I have used for years, and it is highly accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/79 "2007-08-08T02:46:05Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] With only one exception, all martial arts practitioners I’ve known were less likely to get into fights because of it. And that one exception is one of those guys who are so dumb and irrational that they make the gas tank cap look like a superb example of humanity by comparison. **oft wears hats** , that guy thought of martial arts as merely “training to beat people up.” Which means he hadn’t understood Lesson 1. [/QUOTE] Right on target. I’m quite fond of telling people that we do not teach our students how to fight, we teach them how to not fight. The fighting part is for when we have exhausted all other possibilities. It’s much better to run away - that way, nobody gets hurt. But if you can’t run, you’ll have the skills to end the situation as peaceably as possible, but as forcibly as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471/80 "2007-08-08T06:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > =Clothahump Mom asks if we start classes with a prayer. I reply that we don’t. Things go downhill from there. Please Chuck Norris grant us the reflexes to block every punch, the speed to strike without being blocked, and the strength to make it count. Praise Chuck. Our father Chuck Norris who art in movies, hallowed be thy name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-a-potential-student-today/414471.md?page=5)