# I lost my fire arm collection **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738 "2013-01-10T13:03:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/81 "2013-01-10T23:50:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Sigh. Why would I be responsible for a criminal act committed by someone else? Because securing your guns against theft is the act of a responsible gun owner. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/82 "2013-01-10T23:55:06Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/83 "2013-01-10T23:56:39Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Lots of talk about registering firearms as a potential solution. The point of registration, I presume, is to be able to identify who owns what–so let’s build a feasible layer of security into registration and have a ballistics sample so we can work backward to the owner using only a spent murderbullet. Ok? **Not** ok. Doesn’t work that way, for one thing. If I give a sample bullet from one of my guns, and then go out and put a few thousand rounds through like I am wont to do, he sample will not match the gun any more. Not even close. This also doesn’t address the fact that barrels can easily be changed with just a screwdriver, or that running said screwdriver down the barrel a few times will screw up the lands enough to render any comparison worthless, or the fact that most “murder bullets” are so deformed by the time they are through that it is impossible to get useful information from them in the first place, or… You get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/84 "2013-01-11T00:03:52Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I’m starting to feel like a broken record, but let’s take a look at US gun deaths in 2009. [Go to page 81.](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf) and scroll down to firearms. Here’s some math. 60% of the gun deaths were self-inflicted, 37% are homicide, and the remaining 3% is a combination of cops, war and dumbasses. > > How do you take care of the 60% who want to do themselves in? If you take their guns I think it’s fair to say you’ll see an uptick in poisonings, train accidents and car crashes (probably involving innocent collateral damage). Or not. Gun ownership increases the chance of someone killing themselves, just as it increases the chance of them killing someone else. ---
**Author:** ![momosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@momosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/momosa)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/85 "2013-01-11T00:04:21Z")
My insurance man once recounted to me how some duck hunters claimed to have capsized their flat bottom boat and lost their very expensive shotguns…and how shocked they were that American family , working with the dive rescue team for the Sheriff’s Dept, used this as a training drill and to recover said lost shotguns…and they sure enough, did retrieve them for the insurance company. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/86 "2013-01-11T00:17:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because securing your guns against theft is the act of a responsible gun owner. Bullshit. Again, I am not responsible for the criminal actions of third parties. Do you have a safe for your chain saw? How about for your car? Steak knives? Do you want to bubble wrap the world so nobody gets an owie ever again? If someone breaks into my home and steals my property, I’m a crime victim, not a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/87 "2013-01-11T00:21:45Z")
I thought you were a lawyer. Surprising you didn’t hear about duty of care in your Torts class. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/88 "2013-01-11T00:27:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I thought you were a lawyer. Surprising you didn’t hear about duty of care in your Torts class. Go look up causation, and come back to apologize for being wrong. Bonus points if you provide citations regarding criminal actions by third parties. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/89 "2013-01-11T00:28:58Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Bullshit. I’ll bet you won’t go out on a limb and identify any responsibilities of a responsible gun owner. That term is officially meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/90 "2013-01-11T00:32:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’ll bet you won’t go out on a limb and identify any responsibilities of a responsible gun owner. That term is officially meaningless. You lose. I have a duty to not shoot you without a damn good reason. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/91 "2013-01-11T00:34:55Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Go look up causation, and come back to apologize for being wrong. Bonus points if you provide citations regarding criminal actions by third parties. Does or does not the law require you to take reasonable care to prevent your guns from being stolen by “bad guys”? :dubious: You’re really not helping your cause here. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/92 "2013-01-11T01:11:48Z")
Reasonable is a pretty grey word. Guns in the garage? Pretty much everyone will say that’s not reasonably secured. Unadvertised guns stored out of sight, maybe stuffed under the mattress? Much more likely to be considered reasonably difficult for a thief to find and steal. But depending on who is on the jury you might not win even if you encased them in concrete and hid them under the house’s foundation–because they still got stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/93 "2013-01-11T01:44:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Does or does not the law require you to take reasonable care to prevent your guns from being stolen by “bad guys”? :dubious: You tell me, since you’re the “expert”. Don’t forget the citation to controlling legal authority. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/94 "2013-01-11T02:08:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hazardous because you just announced where a firearms could be found for the taking, and I’m also betting that there are laws against dumping trash in the lake. What’s the law about reporting lost or stolen firearms in your state, btw? Depending on how far off shore, it could also be transporting weapons across state lines or country borders. Wonder if Canada likes their new stash-o-guns? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/95 "2013-01-11T02:30:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Does or does not the law require you to take reasonable care to prevent your guns from being stolen by “bad guys”? :dubious: > > You’re really not helping your cause here. > [@Oakminster](#): > > You tell me, since you’re the “expert”. Don’t forget the citation to controlling legal authority. There are a few cases on point. The Massachusetts Superior Court refused to uphold a summary judgment for the defendant in a negligence case, where the defendant homeowner allowed her ex-con stepson with previous adjudicated mental issues, access to a home where weapons were kept. [Jupin v. Kask](http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/447/447mass141.html), 447 Mass. 141 (Mass. 2006). But see the First Circuit CoA case of [Jones v. Secord](http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/pdf.opinions/11-1576P-01A.pdf) where the [appellate court upheld the summary judgment](http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/07/09/court-says-gun-owner-not-negligent-shooting/O43FDJxZ9pXENTj60i0fSM/story.html) for the defendant homeowner. That the one was in MA and the other arose from a NH case might have something to do with the outcome. Professor Andrew McClurg, of the University of Arkansas Law School, has advocated expanding negligence to cover situations similar to ones **ElvisL1ves** was talking about. One of his articles on this topic can be found [here](http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/CtMcClurg.htm), and, IMHO, neatly recaps a lot of the arguments for extending such liability. I disagree with them, and wonder if we’re also going to extend liability to a automobile owner whose car is used in a crime, but, IMHO, the arguments are ably advanced by the professor. I’m sure there are other cases on point, but to the best of my knowledge, no court has (Yet. In my reading of the opinion, the MA Court looked like they were thinking about it.) proposed finding a burglarized homeowner liable for the subsequent use of their stolen firearms to commit a crime. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/96 "2013-01-11T02:33:36Z")
Weird little gun fetishists with their weird little paranoid ‘jokes.’ ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/97 "2013-01-11T03:50:20Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’m sure there are other cases on point, but to the best of my knowledge, no court has (Yet. In my reading of the opinion, the MA Court looked like they were thinking about it.) proposed finding a burglarized homeowner liable for the subsequent use of their stolen firearms to commit a crime. Kinda takes all the fun out of trying to get Elvis to admit he was wrong when you do his homework for him.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/98 "2013-01-11T04:25:58Z")
Well, I first read the thread title as “fire ant” and that sounded more intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/99 "2013-01-11T07:59:13Z")
James Yeager is out there doing his part to promote gun control. He’s the Tennessee businessman who posted a video in which he said, _“I’m not fucking putting up with this. I’m not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. I’m not letting anybody take my guns! If it goes one inch further, I’m going to start killing people.”_ [cite](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/10/unhinged-tactical-response-ceo-threatens-to-start-killing-people-over-obamas-gun-control/) Yeager doesn’t seem to understand that the reason we need gun control laws is to keep people like James Yeager from owning guns. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738/100 "2013-01-11T08:42:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > …(Of course, there’s no way they could comply with the 5th Amendment. It would be way too expensive.) Nonsense! They’ll just mint a couple more trillion dollar platinum coins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-lost-my-fire-arm-collection/646738.md?page=6)