# I Love L.A. - but I want out! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047 "2005-07-11T19:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/21 "2005-07-11T22:24:51Z")
There is another Vancouver out there, and it’s in the US. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/22 "2005-07-11T22:31:46Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > …where my last day was spent in 99% with 97% humidity. Once again, preview fails me. That was supposed to be _99-degree weather_. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/23 "2005-07-11T23:27:47Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Ooops. Mis-read your post and thought Vegas was still on the list. > Oh well. > > Vancouver is beautiful and Canadians speak fairly fluent English. I loved Vancouver, or what I saw of it during my short visit in May. But for an American that would mean emigrating. **DMark** , I imagine Las Vegas, and indeed all of the newer Western cities to be like an extreme-L.A. That is, I imagine it’s even more spread out and more car-dependent. Is that true? What’s traffic like? What’s it like to live there and deal with life’s mundanities, as opposed to being there on vacation and swimming up to the Tropicana pool bar? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/24 "2005-07-12T00:01:11Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I loved Vancouver, or what I saw of it during my short visit in May. But for an American that would mean emigrating. > > **DMark** , I imagine Las Vegas, and indeed all of the newer Western cities to be like an extreme-L.A. That is, I imagine it’s even more spread out and more car-dependent. Is that true? What’s traffic like? What’s it like to live there and deal with life’s mundanities, as opposed to being there on vacation and swimming up to the Tropicana pool bar? You need a car here, no doubt about that. Traffic? Well, the people here bitch about it, but having moved from LA, I think it is going to take several more years before I have anything to complain about. I can drive 70 MPH on the morning drive to work, and during the rush hour on the way home, 40-60 MPH is about the norm for half the way, and 70 MPH the rest. Las Vegas has grown really fast, so in my neighborhood (South East) everything is new…new homes, new streets, new shopping areas, new parks…and it is nice to live in an area where everything is new and clean. I am about 8 miles from The Strip - and only go there when visitors are in town. We like it, but just too crowded. There are, however, dozens and dozens of "locals’ casinos with great buffets, multiplex movie theaters, high end restaurants, better odds on the machines, and a staff that knows if they treat you badly, you ain’t coming back - not a good thing for a casino that lives off the locals. So, we go out a lot, and have a great time - just not on The Strip too often. No state taxes here, and even though home prices have skyrocketed, they are still dirt cheap compared to LA or SF or NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/25 "2005-07-12T00:55:10Z")
IMHO Vancouver is one of the world’s greatest cities. My sugestion is Bend Oregon. Little to no snow, but if you go 15 minutes west, you are in the mountains. I would move there in a heartbeat if I had the money (or a job there) Also on the list Boulder Colorado, Colorado Springs, ah hell pretty much anywhere in Colorado. San Luis Obispo Santa Cruz NOT on my list DC (are you guys crazy, it was built on a swamp, to give you an idea of the humidity) St. Louis Iowa ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/26 "2005-07-12T01:31:16Z")
I hear ya, bruddah. I was born in L.A. County and lived in SoCal all my life except for a year-and-a-half in Japan when I was little. I lived in L.A. for 17 years. It was driving me bonkers, which you can see if you read some of my posts on the subject from a few years ago. I _love_ the PNW, and Vancouver, B.C. is only 32 miles or so away. But there are things I do miss about L.A. (Not the weather!) Looks like I’m going back in November to start a new business. Business should be good there. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/27 "2005-07-12T02:18:39Z")
> [@Corii](#): > > Er, what I really mean is that it rains all the time and the skies are always miserable and grey! 😃 So like, Seattle is not where the deer and the antelope play, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/28 "2005-07-12T02:18:58Z")
Me, I got tired of LA during high school, so I went off to Cal State Chico for college. It was great, a very good thing to do at the time - Chico is a medium-sized town, but large by comparison with the other small towns in the area. Weather-wise, the worst problem were those hellishly hot summer months (when I mostly wasn’t at school anyway, so there). The town got smaller and smaller the longer I stayed there. If you’re a big city couple, don’t get stuck in a small city. The Bay Area might be a possibility for you - SF is pretty darned beautiful. The worst part about SF is that - granting that it’s a slice of heaven - I find that the residents have a wee bit of an ego problem. It’s not a place to get away from LA; just a place where you can continually be told how horrible LA is. (The SF’ans make some excellent points, but the constant reminders get tiresome.) Anhow, seasons are nice - but they do involve a tradeoff. Much north of LA, you can only sit out on the beach for selected months of the year. Well, without layers on. You’re not a beach person, you say? Neither was I, until the opportunity was taken away from me. I’m still not a real beach person, but I find that I really did miss the ocean, the coastal fog, the marine air, the sunsets… Don’t completely burn your bridges, is all I’m suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/29 "2005-07-12T03:09:38Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > \Twist my arm, why don’t you? Cool, bug-free zones? Maybe we need to visit Calgary, too…that is, if you don’t mind ex-Californians invading your neighborhood. 🙂 No problem - we’re one of the fastest growing cities in (probably) North America, so we’re used to newbs. 😃 > [@](#): > > Hmm. I have a friend in D.C. I just talked with today, and she complained bitterly about the humidity right now. My one true experience with humidity was on a trip to Dallas, where my last day was spent in 99% with 97% humidity. :smack: If DC is anything like that, I’m going to have to pass, unless we can afford a summer home elsewhere. Calgary also has very low humidity. Which can be a pain in winter, when all your skin dries up and falls off. The dessicating Chinook winds don’t help, either. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/30 "2005-07-12T07:35:52Z")
For 40+ years Denver’s police force has supposedly been above the law. Police brutality cases come up now and then and are generally unresolved. Most recently, the DPD has been accused of surveilling the local ACLU chapter, in an effort to get dirt on prominent civil libertarians. My mom lived in Denver briefly in 1962. At that time, women driving alone were told never to pull over for traffic stops, but instead to drive to the nearest police station. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/31 "2005-07-12T07:37:54Z")
Mind you, I don’t imply that Denver as a city is particularly dangerous, only that its police force is. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/32 "2005-07-12T09:21:09Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > If DC is anything like that, I’m going to have to pass, unless we can afford a summer home elsewhere. The only place in the US that doesn’t have hot summers is the Pacific NW (including Alaska), and way up in the mountains (no cities there). ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/33 "2005-07-12T14:27:01Z")
My perspective: I’m from the Bay Area (which is cooler than LA for sure, but not exactly a cold weather location), and I love Chicago. The weather takes a little getting used to, yeah, but I’m glad I’ve experienced some hard core winters. It’s character building! The summers are interesting too. Humidity and thunderstorms! (Love me some t-storms…we might get some today!) Lake Michigan is wonderful. We have two major league baseball teams. True, their fans are all in need some serious therapy, but there is a baseball game almost every single day in the city of Chicago. AND we have fireflies. Only the best insect ever! ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/34 "2005-07-12T16:05:04Z")
Thanks for the continued suggestions…here’s more catching up from me: > [@Beware of Doug](#): > > For 40+ years Denver’s police force has supposedly been above the law. Police brutality cases come up now and then and are generally unresolved. Most recently, the DPD has been accused of surveilling the local ACLU chapter, in an effort to get dirt on prominent civil libertarians. > > My mom lived in Denver briefly in 1962. At that time, women driving alone were told never to pull over for traffic stops, but instead to drive to the nearest police station. I grew up in South Central LA. I think there are good cops and bad cops wherever you go, and the idea of Denver having a “reputation” isn’t going to shy me away from it. But your warning will be taken to heart. > [@An Arky](#): > > The only place in the US that doesn’t have hot summers is the Pacific NW (including Alaska), and way up in the mountains (no cities there). I understand. I’m just a wimp when it comes to heat, but if I can survive 100-degree summers here, I can survive 'em just about anywhere as long as the humidity isn’t too high. I just won’t be happy about it. **Kyla** , I actually enjoyed the brief time I visited Chicago. It was over 4th of July weekend back in 2000. We got to experience the Taste of Chicago, hot and humid weather, an amazing thunderstorm, and fireworks over Lake Michigan. The idea of a severe winter doesn’t really initimidate me, but every time I say that, I get three people jumping in to tell me, “Yeah, you THINK you can handle it, but until you spend a few months shoveling snow, you have no idea.” So I figure it’s just best to back off and experience a little winter before I experience a lot. Heck, anything less than 80-degrees on Christmas Day would be a nice change. > [@featherlou](#): > > Calgary also has very low humidity. Which can be a pain in winter, when all your skin dries up and falls off. Um, ow? Fortunately, I have a skin condition that causes me to run dry anyway, so I’m prepared. Take THAT, Calgary! 😃 > [@Civil Guy](#): > > The Bay Area might be a possibility for you - SF is pretty darned beautiful. Agreed. And my wife loves it up there. But I don’t think I’d want to work in the city. To be honest, I prefer San Jose to SF. But I don’t think either of us has much intention of staying in California…at least not the first time out. Somehow, that feels like cheating to me, and moving up that way certainly wouldn’t aid being able to buy a home anywhere. If we can’t afford one down here, we sure as heck can’t buy one there. > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > But there are things I do miss about L.A. (Not the weather!) Looks like I’m going back in November to start a new business. Business should be good there. Wow, good luck to you. Given your original anxiousness to get away, how do you feel about coming back? In what area are you setting up shop? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/35 "2005-07-12T16:34:35Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Wow, good luck to you. Given your original anxiousness to get away, how do you feel about coming back? In what area are you setting up shop? Aside from getting out of L.A. because I didn’t like the weather, the traffic, the noisy neighbours, etc., I had three goals moving up here: [ul][li]To make films with my best **fiend** [/li][li]To get a decent job[/li][li]To get the girl[/ul][/li]My friend gave up filmmaking. I haven’t found a decent job in the 17 months I’ve been here. The girl decided not to marry me. ☹ Basically, I feel utterly defeated. The facts of life are that you need to work to live. I’ll have a better shot at earning a living in L.A. As for the studio, there are a lot more weddings there than here. (Weddings are the ‘bread and butter’ of the studio.) More competition, too; but we’re good. There’s one commercial client who hires us to make his videos. I’m sure we can find more in L.A. We’ll keep the Bellingham studio open for weddings, and come up for commercial jobs. There are other opportunites in L.A. for us that, while they exist up here, are more numerous down there. In case the studio doesn’t work out, I can more easily find work in my previous profession in the L.A. area. We’re looking at two locations: Torrance (supported by **Shayna** and **Spiny Norman** ) and Culver City (supported by a former neighbour). Each has advantages, but Culver City is close to two freeways, studios, Santa Monica, Hollywood, etc. Of course, Torrance is where they build Robinson helicopters! 😉 But you asked how I feel about moving back. As I said, I feel like a failure for not achieving any of my goals up here. After trying for years to relocate to the PNW, it’s a defeat to return. On the other hand, I’m excited to be taking part in a new venture that is more in line with my second love, which is filmmaking. Being a partner in a business means that I won’t have to report to ineffectual middle-management suck-ups. It means that profits will go to me and my partner instead of corporate stockholders in Nottingham. It means that I can set my own schedule – although it also means we’re not going to have weekends off for the foreseeable future. It means that, if we build the business carefully, I might actually get my own flying machine. So my feelings are mixed. Heading back in defeat, ramping up for a new life. I won’t like the hot (and usually boring) weather, but I’ll still have my PNW house as a refuge. ---
**Author:** ![Toddly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Toddly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toddly)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/36 "2005-07-12T17:29:09Z")
Of the large cities on your list I would go to Portland. I don’t really care for large cities so if it was me and the wife I would check out Bend, OR., Grant’s Pass, OR. or Santa Barbara, CA. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/37 "2005-07-12T17:32:33Z")
Chattanooga, Tennessee is ok for tech, has beautiful mountain scenery, a fine recreational lake, relatively mild winters, & is _safe_. If you like museums & outdoor stuff, or are a history buff, it’s a great place. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/38 "2005-07-12T17:44:58Z")
> [@Toddly](#): > > Of the large cities on your list I would go to Portland. I don’t really care for large cities so if it was me and the wife I would check out Bend, OR., Grant’s Pass, OR. or Santa Barbara, CA. The last time I visited Santa Barbara was for my long-cross-country flight when I was training for helicopters. No real experience there, nor in Bend. Grants Pass. My grandparents lived in the boonies about 14 miles from Applegate. An uncle lives in Grants Pass. It’s a nice area if you’re a kid visiting the grandparents for a couple of weeks in the summer. But the area seems too conservative for my tastes. I see a fair number of fundie signs near churches there, and I’ve run into a racist. Not to mention that I consider Oregon to be Driver’s Purgatory because of their low speed limits and weird drivers. Portland seems like a nice city, but I’ve only driven through it. I’ve also only driven through Vancouver, WA. It seems to be much like Portland, at least from the freeway. Olympia looks okay, too. As for small cities, Bellingham (20-some miles south of where I live) is nice. I think the population is around 65,000. There’s a college, so naturally there are some nice places to hang out downtown. The architecture, some of which dates from the late-19th Century, is attractive to me. But there are a couple of issues. For one, the job market is not as good as I had hoped. At least, I haven’t found anyone hiring Data Management Analysts. Another thing is the variety of ethnic foods. Most of the Mexican restaurants seem to be rather generic. (There’s a catering truck downtown that has authentic Mexican food, but its menu is somewhat limited.) In my old neighbourhood I could walk to restaurants that served Mexican food, Cuban food, Indian food, Thai food, Chinese food, American food, and also fast food. Get in the car, and there’s any number of great places to eat in L.A. I find the variety lacking up here. Another issue is the date-able population. ‘Kids’ come up for college, and then leave. Older people (i.e., my age) and retirees move to the area later. I’ve given up on relationships, so it really doesn’t matter to me that there is a dearth of date-able women. But my pard is still on the hunt, and he finds the situation frustrating. If you have a family, or if you’re college-age, then Bellingham is a great place. Vancouver, B.C. is only 50 miles away (or less). There’s hiking, crabbing, shrimping, fishing, boating, camping, etc. all nearby. Mt. Baker is handy for snow skiing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/39 "2005-07-12T18:15:51Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > \I had three goals moving up here: > [ul][li]To make films with my best **fiend** [/li][li]To get a decent job[/li][li]To get the girl[/ul][/li]My friend gave up filmmaking. I haven’t found a decent job in the 17 months I’ve been here. The girl decided not to marry me. ☹ Basically, I feel utterly defeated. \ No, to have not tried at all is utter defeat. You gave it a good shot, it didn’t work out, and you’ve faced up to that and you’re moving on. I don’t see any defeat here at all. Give yourself a break, wouldja? 🙂 {/pep talk} ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047/40 "2005-07-12T18:19:58Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Chattanooga, Tennessee is ok for tech, has beautiful mountain scenery, a fine recreational lake, relatively mild winters, & is _safe_. > > If you like museums & outdoor stuff, or are a history buff, it’s a great place. This isn’t a bad idea. I visited Chattanooga last April, and I really liked it. Of course while I was there I had to thumb through real estate and rental pamphlets, and given that I live in one of the pricier California markets, I was quite distressed at how much cheaper the cost of living is there. I love SoCal weather to death though, so I think it would be too humid and extreme for me (which doesn’t take much). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-l-a-but-i-want-out/312047.md?page=3)