# I LOVE my prenuptial agreement! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 5, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814 "2012-10-05T15:22:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/61 "2012-10-05T19:40:11Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > Perhaps but I do think the money I have spent on education and transportation so he could get a good job would possibly offset any idea that he was “encouraged” to depend on me. Three different programs that he didn’t complete. 18 jobs he has lost due to no shows. Multiple drafts of resumes I have written for him. It goes on and on. If a judge wants me to pay him, I will have no choice but that would be unfair if I did NOT have a prenup, since I do, it would be a travesty. Putting it that way just shows how much he DID have to depend on you. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/62 "2012-10-05T19:42:24Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > I can’t talk for other people but I mistakenly thought it was better for our daughter to grow up with a father around than not. Even if he was a loser. But did you have to marry him for him to “be around”? Plenty of people co-parent without being married to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/63 "2012-10-05T19:43:53Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > Perhaps but I do think the money I have spent on education and transportation so he could get a good job would possibly offset any idea that he was “encouraged” to depend on me. Three different programs that he didn’t complete. 18 jobs he has lost due to no shows. Multiple drafts of resumes I have written for him. It goes on and on. If a judge wants me to pay him, I will have no choice but that would be unfair if I did NOT have a prenup, since I do, it would be a travesty. Again, it’s going to depend on where you live, the exact facts of your case, and the judge, but not necessarily. I have seen similar fact patterns where the dependent spouse was called “unemployable,” the no alimony clause in the prenup was set aside, and the dependent spouse was granted rehabilitative alimony. The most damning part of the facts (as you’ve related them) is that you say he tried separating from you and “couldn’t make it on his own,” so you let him move back in (i.e., be supported in large measure by you). You have also been married a very long time, and admit you doubted all along that he was competent to support himself. You’ve also mentioned he has a history of mental illness before. IME, that fact pattern usually ends up with a judge invalidating the prenup to give rehabilitative alimony and, sometimes, an additional property settlement (like requiring the working spouse to give the dependent spouse a car so s/he can be more employable). I’ve seen it happen a lot in situations similar to yours. YMMV, depending on your state, the judge you get, and whether your husband is clever enough to contest the prenup. Just saying–don’t celebrate until the divorce is complete. Prenups are far from ironclad. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/64 "2012-10-05T19:52:26Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > But did you have to marry him for him to “be around”? Plenty of people co-parent without being married to each other. It was my personal experience that men do not stick around for their kids when they aren’t married to the mother. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/65 "2012-10-05T19:55:03Z")
> [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > Again, it’s going to depend on where you live, the exact facts of your case, and the judge, but not necessarily. I have seen similar fact patterns where the dependent spouse was called “unemployable,” the no alimony clause in the prenup was set aside, and the dependent spouse was granted rehabilitative alimony. > > The most damning part of the facts (as you’ve related them) is that you say he tried separating from you and “couldn’t make it on his own,” so you let him move back in (i.e., be supported in large measure by you). You have also been married a very long time, and admit you doubted all along that he was competent to support himself. You’ve also mentioned he has a history of mental illness before. IME, that fact pattern usually ends up with a judge invalidating the prenup to give rehabilitative alimony and, sometimes, an additional property settlement (like requiring the working spouse to give the dependent spouse a car so s/he can be more employable). > > I’ve seen it happen a lot in situations similar to yours. YMMV, depending on your state, the judge you get, and whether your husband is clever enough to contest the prenup. Just saying–don’t celebrate until the divorce is complete. Prenups are far from ironclad. Lets just hope he doesn’t get a lawyer or the judge is a reasonable person who doesn’t stick me with this leech for the rest of my life because I was trying to be nice to the father of my child thinking that was a good idea. If it happens it happens. I am glad to be rid of him and have to deal with the fall out of my horrendous mistake. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/66 "2012-10-05T19:57:48Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > I don’t think you quite understand. I am against spousal support whether it is for me or anyone else. If things had turned out differently, I wouldn’t expect nor want a DIME from another human being that was not gladly given. My luck turning bad would only be my husband’s problem if he choose for it to be. Let me put it this way. The way your “yours is yours and mine is mine” prenup sounds I’d say you traded “I don’t have to give the deadbeat a thing when I leave if he does bad and I do good” for any opportunity for you to “get what you rightfully deserve if things go bad for you at some point”. Sure it ended well for you (so far). But that does not seem like a wise trade off to me. To me it sounds like the marriage equivalent of not having insurance. Sure, you’ll PROBABLY save some money. But if the shit hits the fan you are screwed. Sounds to me you were hell bent on not giving the loser a dime ever rather than looking out for your overall best interests. Don’t get me wrong. I am glad you are getting away finally if things are as they sound. But that does not mean I don’t think your kind of prenup is automatically a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/67 "2012-10-05T20:09:35Z")
Perhaps prenuptial agreements aren’t right for every couple. If I ever marry again, which at this point I seriously doubt, I would never marry without a clear prenup. The one positive thing about splitting finances is we never had a fight or disagreement about money. I bought what I wanted out of my money and when he worked, he spent his money on whatever he wanted. I didn’t question or care. He spent a good run in fine dining and made over fifty thousand dollars that year of which I never saw a dime. I was just happy that if his car broke down, he had the money to fix it. We never shared an account, a credit card or even the same car insurance. No funds were ever combined. I didn’t even take his name. I wouldn’t do it differently even if I was to marry the CEO of a billion dollar company. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/68 "2012-10-05T20:12:57Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > Lets just hope he doesn’t get a lawyer or the judge is a reasonable person who doesn’t stick me with this leech for the rest of my life because I was trying to be nice to the father of my child thinking that was a good idea. If it happens it happens. I am glad to be rid of him and have to deal with the fall out of my horrendous mistake. You list yourself as being in Florida. Florida is a state that allows invalidation of “no alimony” clauses where one spouse might end up destitute. I am not your attorney, and I assume you have one. But the fact that you were “nice to him” (i.e., took on the burden of supporting him) often cuts in favor of an order for rehabilitative alimony. (Which usually lasts 2-5 years.) I hope things improve for your daughter soon. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/69 "2012-10-05T20:15:23Z")
Not that this matters; I’m just curious: you married him because you were pregnant with your daughter, if I understand correctly. That was 16 years ago. So she should be at very least a freshman now, right? But then you said, “I was planning on allowing him to stay until our daughter graduated high school in five years because, to be honest, he and I had very little contact.” I don’t get the math… was it at some earlier time - say, two or three years ago - when you thought, “I’ll just wait until she’s out of high school,” or has she been held back, or what? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/70 "2012-10-05T20:18:24Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Tiger Woods loved his prenupt too, until their divorce happened and she didn’t like the original prenupt and it was changed. 80 million instead of 5 million, not bad for never even picking up a golf club for a living. Tiger’s prenup was changed because HE wanted to add a “you will shut the fuck up about everything that happened forever” clause and was perfectly willing and happy to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/71 "2012-10-05T20:23:50Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Congrats Foxy…you’ve posted about your husband for years and it always seemed like you were carrying the weight of responsibility while you tried to shield your daughter from “your dad is a fuck up.” I’m sorry he turned out to be such a fuck up that in shielding her, he managed to hurt her further. > > I think pre-nups are great things. They can be written in ways that are fair to both parties and contain clauses for illness or length of marriage or whatever. You were wise to sign one. > > I married my first husband under the whole “I don’t think this will work out” - I had great hopes of him managing to grow up, but the marriage ended before he did - and thankfully the marriage ending took only eighteen months from the wedding. (actually, he still hasn’t grown up - we’ve been divorced twenty years). This is exactly what I was going to post. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/72 "2012-10-05T20:41:52Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not that this matters; I’m just curious: you married him because you were pregnant with your daughter, if I understand correctly. That was 16 years ago. So she should be at very least a freshman now, right? But then you said, “I was planning on allowing him to stay until our daughter graduated high school in five years because, to be honest, he and I had very little contact.” I don’t get the math… was it at some earlier time - say, two or three years ago - when you thought, “I’ll just wait until she’s out of high school,” or has she been held back, or what? Nope, you’re right. We’ve been married 14 years. 14 years next month. We’ve been a couple for 16. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/73 "2012-10-05T20:44:31Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > I don’t think you quite understand. I am against spousal support whether it is for me or anyone else. Ah yes, the true meaning of marriage. And people think the gays are ruining it. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/74 "2012-10-05T20:44:34Z")
Be aware that having a monor child together will also affect how much of the pre-nup gets enforced. Especially, since what you describe as him keeping to his mancave and having no job can easily be turned around on you as _him_ being the primary housekeeper and child care provider. (ie. “I couldn’t work because I had to be home to take care of Daughter after school while **Foxy40** was out working long hours. Woe is me! I spent 16 years as Mr. Mom and deserve my fair share for it!”) Being emotionally abusive is not the same thing as being an unfit parent, so it may cause a Family Court judge to invalidate parts of the pre-nup that would leave the “primary caretaker” destitue or homeless. Do you have fully documented proof that he was not the primary household caretaker while you were the breadwinner? 'Cause that will be his first line of defense, if he even has a halfway decent lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/75 "2012-10-05T20:49:19Z")
I can’t wait to see how this turns out. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/76 "2012-10-05T21:11:25Z")
Let me throw this random piece of useless advice out. You probably think he contributed nothing and if nothing else was an actual drain on the “marriage”. He probably THINKS (and there is small chance it is true) that he contributed more than you think he did. Now the prenup says he gets nothing. The bigger question is whether he THINKS that is fair. If he doesn’t, it’s lawyer time and as many folks here are pointing out that prenup is most likely not a get out of jail free card. So, what to do? IMO I would offer him something. Not something so substantial it hurts you in a serious financial way. But at least enough that he doesn’t feel like he is getting nothing. The less you give him the more likely you are for him to lawyer up and go for all he can get. So, you need to figure out the risk/reward ratio you are willing to live with here. Off the top of my head, I’d say pay off his car (or buy him a cheap one), give him a few K for relocating expenses, and perhaps a small stipend (perhaps in a declining fashion to allow him to transition to working full time again) for a short period of time to make sure he’s got some cash to live on. You enabled him to not be self supporting. You throw him to the curb with nothing and it could easily get ugly IMO. Now we can bitch and moan about who’s right and who’s wrong and all that jazz but thats now kinda beside the point. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/77 "2012-10-05T21:15:50Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Saddling yourself with a loser would at least be excusable if you were head over heels in love at the time. Wow, why do people do this to themselves? Because you are head over heels “in love” and you believe you can “fix him” or he will mature. And you are young and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/78 "2012-10-05T21:28:10Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Ah yes, the true meaning of marriage. > And people think the gays are ruining it. You do know that ‘spousal support’ means alimony, not supporting your spouse while married? ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/79 "2012-10-05T21:31:09Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Ah yes, the true meaning of marriage. > And people think the gays are ruining it. Wait, are you saying the true meaning of marriage is current or future financial support? I do not believe that should be the case at all. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814/80 "2012-10-05T21:35:38Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Be aware that having a monor child together will also affect how much of the pre-nup gets enforced. Especially, since what you describe as him keeping to his mancave and having no job can easily be turned around on you as _him_ being the primary housekeeper and child care provider. (ie. “I couldn’t work because I had to be home to take care of Daughter after school while **Foxy40** was out working long hours. Woe is me! I spent 16 years as Mr. Mom and deserve my fair share for it!”) Being emotionally abusive is not the same thing as being an unfit parent, so it may cause a Family Court judge to invalidate parts of the pre-nup that would leave the “primary caretaker” destitue or homeless. Do you have fully documented proof that he was not the primary household caretaker while you were the breadwinner? 'Cause that will be his first line of defense, if he even has a halfway decent lawyer. Yes, plenty of evidence that he was not the primary care giver. I paid a sitter and currently a daily tutor to take over the “job” he was unwilling to do. My daughter’s teachers have never had a conference or any communication with or from him. Let me be clear, if the man had contributed in running a household, he would still be out but I would at least feel morally, even if not legally responsible to give him his fair share. I am doing that now. He is getting what he deserves and earned. If he gets a lawyer and fights for something, which he won’t, he can’t claim he was the primary care giver other than picking her up from school once in a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-my-prenuptial-agreement/636814.md?page=5)