# I love RTA for this! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 30, 2000, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812 "2000-12-30T19:12:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/81 "2001-01-02T23:43:24Z")
SPOOFE: Welcome to the club. You’re on her “list”. Her “gutless-I’ll-_pretend_-to-ignore-you-but-really-won’t” list. Many of us are. You’re in good company, though! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/82 "2001-01-02T23:46:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll ask again: What parts of the series of events outlined by Milo are incorrect or inaccurate? THAT is the question posed before you, and THAT is what you’re dancing around. It has nothing to do with your political beliefs. Bullshit. It has _everything_ to do with her political beliefs, and _nothing_ to do with clarification. I liked you assholes better when you weren’t pretending to be truth-seekers. Milo’s questions have indeed been answered over and over, by **RTFirefly** , **Spiritus Mundi** , **wring** , **elucidator** and others (including **Stoidela** ). Just to illustrate, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=51819) [are](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=50829) a [few](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46745) [links](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46135). Not that they’ll do any good, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/83 "2001-01-03T00:28:59Z")
No, no. Don’t play “linky-linky.” Let’s play “apples and apples.” It’s right up there a few inches for you to read, cut, paste and answer. What’s incorrect? Who is/are the evil wrongdoer{s}? _(This is the place where you continue to avoid the scenario as presented to you, because you can’t logically refute it.)_ ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/84 "2001-01-03T00:39:22Z")
And while we’re answering questions, I’d like Stoidela’s evidence for the evilness of Republicans. We’ll even use her definition for evil. Please submit one or more instances of inherent evil, for any or all of the following categories, which can be applied exclusively to a conservative(s). > [@](#): > > e·vil (vl) > adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est. > > 1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant. > 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet. > 3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens. > 4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation. > 5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/85 "2001-01-03T01:54:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*And while we’re answering questions, I’d like Stoidela’s evidence for the evilness of Republicans. We’ll even use her definition for evil. Please submit one or more instances of inherent evil, for any or all of the following categories, which can be applied exclusively to a conservative(s). > \*\* Well, I believe that I started a thread (which is 90% responsible for the vilification I receive around here, no doubt) about Republican/Conservative philosophy, and my opinion of it. I believe it to be inherently selfish, without regard for consequences that go beyond the financial pages. Apart from the lipservice given to “family values” and being “tough on crime” as a means of advancing a socially repressive agenda in terms of civil liberties, [sub](which is pretty damn evil right there, actually)[/sub]I have never read or heard of a Republican politician or pundit citing much of anything outside stockholders as their reason for doing/believing anything. Applied, the GOP platform will have evil results: destruction of the planet being foremost among them and my primary issue among many. It is always the GOP that is first to turn to destructive acts to solve a problem/make a buck (Hey! Vote for me! I won’t hesitate to drill for oil in Alaska!), and it is always the GOP that will block legislation that is designed to help the environment but which may cost companies money. I consider reckless disregard for the health of the planet and the creatures on it morally wrong, wicked, causing ruin, injury and pain, certainly indicating future misfortune, and blameworthy. And when it comes to politics, it has been my observation that among the most popular parties it is Republicans who are most often likely to pooh-pooh the facts of the environmental destruction which is happening around us every second of every day. In fact, I cannot ever recall hearing a self-identified Democrat pooh-pooh environmental issues at all, even though they do not all agree on the extent of the problem and the acceptable answers. (I have, however, heard/read of a very rare Republican here and there who takes it seriously, to be entirely fair.) This alone would be enough to justify the label of “evil”, and since it is what is closest to my heart and the issue that motivates my passions above all others, I will leave it at that for now. I have also said, right here in this thread, that I do not believe that most Republicans set out to do what they believe to be evil, it’s just that they refuse to accept the evil results of their actions or potential evil results of the actions they wish to take but have been prevented from taking. Now, some may argue that evil automatically implies intent, but I do not agree, and the definitions do not cite that. Which is still not to let Republicans off the hook entirely. In the case of #5, I think evil still applies in terms of maliciousness, most recently and publicly as regards those Republicans who made it their business to harass Clinton to death. There was a whole lotta maliciousness goin’ on. And I still can’t figure out why. Although I do have a book on my Amazon wish list that I am going to get soon: \* It’s the Stupidity, Stupid : Why (Some) People Hate Clinton and Why the Rest of Us Have to Watch \* by Harry Shearer It is almost certain that you will not agree with me, but that is utterly beside the point. I was asked why I assign the label of evil. I have now told you. Whether I am right or wrong is completely debatable, of course. But never let it be said that I don’t have my reasons! Stoid ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/86 "2001-01-03T02:47:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > No, no. Don’t play “linky-linky.” > > Let’s play “apples and apples.” It’s right up there a few inches for you to read, cut, paste and answer. > > What’s incorrect? Who is/are the evil wrongdoer{s}? > > (This is the place where you continue to avoid the scenario as presented to you, because you can’t logically refute it.) Why yes, **Milo**. _Let’s_ rehash pages and pages (and pages and pages and pages) of election discussion right here in this unrelated thread, just because…well, pretty much just because. Oh, and don’t forget to call people names if they refuse to do it. Good, I see you’ve got that covered. You’ll really claim rhetorical victory on this issue, even though it’s been picked apart for weeks and weeks, if people don’t deign to go over it all again here? What am I saying…of _course_ you would. Talk about a waste of bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/87 "2001-01-03T03:04:20Z")
that perhaps I have not been crystal clear about this: I consider environmental destruction to be the single greatest crime of all time. Worse than anything else. Period. There is \* no greater evil \* in my book than destroying the single most spectacular and magical place in the entire universe that we know of. Everyone gets all atwitter about the condition the earth would end up in if we ever had a nuclear war…well, the way we’re going, the planet is going to end up pretty much just as fucked as it would be after a nuclear war, just not instantaneously. Every one of us participates in this destruction to some degree, because it’s virtually impossible to avoid. But some of us are at least \*\* prioritizing \*\* \*\* NOT \*\* doing it. So yeah… so long as they pooh-pooh global warming and vote against the Endangered Species Act…Republicans are EVIL. stoid ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/88 "2001-01-03T03:31:22Z")
So the people who voted for Clinton in '92 were motivated by evil when they voted him into office? Because I don’t recall the bumper stickers saying “It’s the ENVIRONMENT, stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/89 "2001-01-03T03:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoidela \* > \*\*that perhaps I have not been crystal clear about this: > > So yeah… so long as they pooh-pooh global warming and vote against the Endangered Species Act…Republicans are EVIL. > > \*\* well it’s good to know that you think Gore is evil too. You do think he’s evil? Right? After all, it’s hard to find many democrats more anti-environmental than Gore ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/90 "2001-01-03T03:58:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*So the people who voted for Clinton in '92 were motivated by evil when they voted him into office? Because I don’t recall the bumper stickers saying “It’s the ENVIRONMENT, stupid.” \*\* I don’t know why anyone else voted for him. I voted for him because I trusted him to do better than Bush at just about everything, and I was right. Oldscratch: Yep. Uh huh. Whatever you say. stoid ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/91 "2001-01-03T04:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoidela \* > \*\* > Oldscratch: > > Yep. Uh huh. Whatever you say. > > stoid \*\* Ummmm forgive me. I can’t figure out if you’re being sarcastic or not. Can you fill me in. I mean, why would you support Gore if he’s anti-environmental. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/92 "2001-01-03T07:28:45Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I mean, why would you support Gore if he’s anti-environmental. \*\* I dunno, Oldscratch…some things are just too mysterious to explain. \ stoid ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/93 "2001-01-03T11:51:31Z")
Ah. I get it now. The Republicans are evil, because you say they’re evil. Let’s talk about the environment though. Specifically, Al Gore’s **own** lipservice to the environment. In fact, I’m gonna go back to a post I made a few weeks ago. You’ll find it in this thread, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=47033](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=47033) > [@](#): > > Would you like us to critically examine Mr. Gore’s record on the environment? > > Shall we start the endangered black-footed ferret? Whoops! Wiped out 4 mating pairs when he had a dry riverbed flooded for a photo-op. > > How 'bout the WTI toxic waste burner in East Liverpool, Ohio? Gore slammed Bush in 1992 for wanting to approve burning permits. He said the Clinton/Gore administration wouldn’t approve them. And then went ahead and approved the permits anyway in Oct of 1993. > > How 'bout the family ties to Occidental Petroleum? Maybe this explains the next tidbit. > > How 'bout Gore’s recent stance against using nuclear power and hydro-electric sources to reduce greenhouse emmissions? Apparently, Gore thinks we should continue to burn more fossil fuels. > > Whoops again! The government’s current environmental policies are so effective, the fed is now listing the Atlantic Salmon as an endangered species in Maine. > > Specifically, to the Artic National Wildlife Refuge, Gore opposes oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge because he deems the threat to land and wildlife as too great. However, environmentalists made the same argument more than 20 years ago about the trans-Alaska oil pipeline and drilling in the small area that now produces oil near Prudhoe Bay. But in the years since, every claim about how the land and animals would suffer has proven false. > > I can go on (and on and on) if you wish … And to this, you, Stoidela, responded, > [@](#): > > Hey, I never said he was perfect. So, from all this, and using _your_ logic, I believe a valid conclusion would be that Gore is also evil. It’s only a matter of degree. And when you can show conclusive evidence of global warming, please publish it. There’s an awful lot of scientists convinced it doesn’t exist. I also wanna address your claims that Republicans are selfish and greedy. Apparently you believe creating jobs and capital equates to greed. I guess you’d rather enslave the unfortunates to the government through welfare addiction. This, the crushing of the spirit of humanity, in my opinion, is the **true** evil. Just how many people have their livelihood riding on the back of what the liberals want to be the permanent underclass now? Do you not believe these welfare administrators and clerks have a desire to maintain their own standard of living? Do you suppose they distrubute your largess through altruism? The conservatives, on the other hand, only wish to create capital. And I can tell ya, government re-disribution programs will **never** do that. Only the marketplace can create wealth and only wealth will ever eliminate poverty. This is so simple. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/94 "2001-01-03T14:02:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > \*\*No, no. Don’t play “linky-linky.” > > Let’s play “apples and apples.” It’s right up there a few inches for you to read, cut, paste and answer. > > What’s incorrect? Who is/are the evil wrongdoer{s}? > > _(This is the place where you continue to avoid the scenario as presented to you, because you can’t logically refute it.)_ \*\* Yup. I knew you might come back with this, **Milo**. But I have no intention of cutting and pasting for you, since obviously you have an information retention problem. If you’ve forgotten every previous discussion you’ve had regarding the points in your scenario, I’m confident you’ll again pretend your points were ignored later on in this very thread. See, guys; the charge wasn’t “You liberals have never completely swayed us with your arguments”, which would’ve been truthful and reasonable. Instead, you’re playing the “refresh my memory” game, claiming that only addressing your points _in this thread_ counts. Now I could address your scenario Milo, but what would that prove, other than that we still disagree? Instead, I’ll respond with a hearty and appropriate “Fuck you!” If you object to the “GOP is EVIL” charge, fine; _argue against it_. But don’t pretend we’re afraid to answer your particular political spin for the umpteenth time. You object to **Stoidela** ’s single-minded anti-conservative tone in the OP, **Milo**? Compare and contrast it to [this classic OP](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=45599). Any points of similarity? You know, you (and others on this MB) should really be grateful to **Stoidela** for her most inflammatory posts. Ever wondered how you appear to liberals when you post jingoistic comments? Take a look at some of **Stoid** ’s OPs. **Scylla** said something quite canny yesterday about [looking in a mirror](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1018411#post1018411). Words to live by. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/95 "2001-01-03T14:11:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Why yes, Milo. Let’s rehash pages and pages (and pages and pages and pages) of election discussion right here in this unrelated thread, just because…well, pretty much just because. > > Oh, and don’t forget to call people names if they refuse to do it. Good, I see you’ve got that covered. \*\* I felt it was related, because I was trying to get at the heart of why, exactly, Bush is an evil wrong-doer. In summation, now that it’s all over. That kind of thing. Feel free to disagree. And who did I call a name because they refused to do it? ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/96 "2001-01-03T14:21:24Z")
Gadarene - If you’re referring to my “chicken-shit” comment Re: Stoidela … she’s a chicken-shit for oh, so many reasons beyond not responding to the scenario I presented above. As has been pointed out, her veiled attacks and “I don’t respond to personal insults” when challenged on them, essentially using the “la-la-la, I’m not listening to you,” 4-year-old tactic. xeno: Yes, please do go back and read the OP. The thread title was more inflammatory than I intended, and I said so later in the thread. However, if you want examples of liberals who feel they are morally and intellectually superior to anyone who voted for Bush, you don’t have to look very far. There are at least a couple in this thread. So, what in that OP outraged you, then? ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/97 "2001-01-03T14:56:35Z")
Stoidela…Chrono and others… I’d like to thank you so much for being able to convey so effectively in all of your posts what I am not nearly educated nor articulate enough to do myself. Thank you. Stoidela, I would like to add my own personal pet outrage at the Republican adgenda…that’s the “Every man for himself” code. Of course so many of them, especially the leaders of this party are born with silver spoons in their mouths. I do hope one day they choke on them. While the environment is important to me, people and their suffering is what gets my dander up. The idea that if you fail in some way to pull yourself up by your boot straps then you deserve to live like vermin in the richest country on earth frankly makes me feel ill. A few months ago I took the Keirsey Temperment thingy. One of the questions really struck me, most of them were easier to answer, this one made me pause. It asked which is more important justice or mercy? I thought about it a moment, and finally decided that while justice is very important, mercy is a quality that this world could use even more. I see very little of that in the “conservative philosophy”. And it disturbs me greatly that ordinary people, who would consider themselves personally charitable, merciful and just do not see that their political affiliations are not baring this out. Oh well…I need to shut up because I’m am just not good at debating. I am not good at defending my position when faced with being called things like a “liberal racist” and such. I’m not good at explaining why I don’t personally feel like a victim but I’m outraged at the political, economic and social victimization that other women, children, and minorities have to face in this country everyday. Call me a liberal racisit, call me a martyr, call me a moralizer I really don’t care, I thought at some point there we were evolving into a society better than that. I was wrong and it breaks my heart. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/98 "2001-01-03T15:19:30Z")
Perhaps you’d get more respect if you had some idea about conservative philosophy before condemning it. And if you’ve got such a problem with being born with a silver spoon in the mouth, why don’t you seem to have any objection to the Kennedy family? Maybe you’d get a better reception for your ideas if they weren’t the product of such ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/99 "2001-01-03T15:41:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > \*\*xeno: Yes, please do go back and read the OP. The thread title was more inflammatory than I intended, and I said so later in the thread. \*\* That title, of course, was "Hey Democrats, Whine here! Tell us how smart you all are and how dumb we all are! " So, tell me please, **Milo** which was it? 1. I really didn’t understand how those words **might** be considerered inflammatory or 2. Some nasty liberals held a water pistol to my head and **forced** me to type those words and hit submit. ?? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812/100 "2001-01-03T15:43:33Z")
> [@](#): > > So, what in that OP outraged you, then? Absolutely nothing. I was uninterested in both OPs (yours in the link and **Stoid** ’s here), simply because I felt both were intended to provoke, rather than to promote discussion. You may have noticed that, other than one rant I posted that slammed _all_ the major Presidential candidates, I’ve never responded to a political discussion with categorical slurs against a particular party, and I really don’t find such slurs compelling - against any political school of thought. I linked to your OP because I felt the anti-liberal tone of it was quite similar to the anti-conservative tone you’ve been complaining about. In both cases, declarative statements were presented as the unadulterated and inarguable “truth” of the situation, and it was quite obvious that no counterargument would be entertained. I simply wished to point out that those who are excoriating **Stoid** for this attitude are IMO holding her to standards of behavior which they do not wish to apply to themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-rta-for-this/47812.md?page=6)