Upon careful re-reading of the OP I see may have I overstated my case. But here goes, and perhaps I’ll learn something from the expert criticism I’m about to receive:
The “back in high school” part can be viewed as a dependent clause and both commas are therefore OK. Or you can remove the first comma and “back in high school” becomes an adverbial phrase providing additional when/where/why attributes of “met”. To my eye/ear the sentence reads more smoothly without the first comma. The mere fact a clause could be removed and leave an intact sentence does not mean it must be treated as dependent.
Perhaps it’s just a matter of whose style manual to follow, but I find that comma very jarring. The “and” is a conjunction and this is not a list; why should there be a separator there? Again the mere fact a clause could be removed and leave an intact sentence does not mean it must be treated as dependent.
Same as 2. above.
The final comma is again jarring. the “either” is part of the second alternative & belongs with it, not separated. In the alternative I suppose you could set the “but” off with commas on both sides and then comma before the “either” would be parallel.
There were a couple of others I initially thought could/should be removed. Upon further consideration I see that was just my overactive comma remover working to de-commafy my own writing.
Please note my purpose here is not to criticize the OP’s writing style, but rather to answer iwakura43’s question and provide a learning experience for myself. The OP merely serves as a handy text to discuss.
I never really learned any English grammar apart from the basics (obj, IO, obj of prep, etc) until I learned French. Then things in English made more sense. Never diagrammed a sentence, though.
While I agree that conceptual understanding and critical thinking about writing is more important than the grammar, an understanding of grammar adds another level of understanding the text. There are subtleties that sometimes only become apparent when you understand the grammar of some writing, and it allows you a higher degree of precision in what you’re talking about.
Why did he advise against that? Didn’t he want you to move to Mississippi and become an alcoholic?
Can I feed your addiction? You can also use semicolons to seperate entries in a list (where you’d normally use commas) when those entries contain commas.
‘We have three set menus: a, b, and c; d, e, and f; or g, h, and i.’
Back in high school is an adverbial phrase that describes but does not qualify the meeting; to leave the commas out would indicate that there had been another ‘first’ meeting. ‘Non-restrictive modifier’
Words like ‘either’ and ‘though’ are always set off by commas.
In English 101 we read “Notes on Punctuation” by Lewis Thomas. Although I have the book right here, I’m too lazy to quote.
He says you must not abuse exclamation marks. If something is so remarkable that you think you need an exclamation mark, the sentence should speak for itself without one. The potential for abuse is great. Just intercept a note between two twelve-year old girls and you’ll see what I mean.
A step or two removed from that is the semi-colon. It drags the reader by the nose. I mean, you already have my attention if I’m reading and the semi-colon says: “Don’t miss what I’m about to tell you. It is critical (or shocking or ironic or something very important).” If the semi-colon delivers on its promise, I’m okay with that. Even so, using too many can quickly become overbearing IMO.
I overuse commas, ellipses, and dashes. I am sincere in my desire to repent however.
You’d think I would know better than to neglect a thread like this, wouldn’t you? Thank you, all; I do appreciate your kind replies. (And thank you especially, Mr. Smithee; a day on which I’m responsible for a swoon is a very special day.) I’ll just touch on a few highlights.
First, I’m pleased to see that I inadvertently convened the first meeting of the Society for the Defense and Appreciation of Semicolons. With such friends as these, I’m certain that the semicolon shall not disappear entirely from the written page in the very near future.
The consensus, as near as I can tell, is that there is no consensus. I won’t use semicolons in successive sentences, nor will I join more than two independent clauses in a single sentence. Despite my OP, I’m hardly shy with them; in the law review Comment that’s got me thinking about this, I counted… um… twenty nine in 24 double-spaced pages. Two editors remarked on them; one just noticed them, the other has taken a more activist approach.
Odd that you feel that way, lobotomyboy. I feel as if the semicolon is much more subtle than that. It avoids the abruptness of a period, and unlike a conjunction, it leaves the connection between the two independent clauses to be inferred. The semicolon is very modest, as punctuation marks go. (Unlike that rowdy apostrophe, who is always showing up where he’s neither wanted nor needed.)
BellRung, I had a similar experience when taking ancient Greek back in college. Learning a foreign language made me think about English grammar in a much more conscious way, and my English writing improved as a result. Unfortunately, I let my studies lapse when I left undergrad.
Though you claim they always are, I disagree. I think you either need to qualify your claim or at least remove the word “always.”
(Anticipated response: “I didn’t say ‘either’ and ‘though’ are always set off by commas; I said words like ‘either’ and ‘though’ are always set off by commas!”)
