# I love the smell of Karma in the morning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186 "2008-12-15T01:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/21 "2008-12-15T14:51:35Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I would note that Dr. Dickhead was in emergency medicine. So if anyone should know of the injuries that could be caused by such an accident, he would be the guy. Well, color me amazed that non-physicians could be considered ignorant of the consequences of such behavior. Should they get lighter sentences than “Dr. Dickhead” for causing bicyclists to crash? And would it be “karma” for non-MDs to get brought up on charges for dangerous road-rage behavior? I have no problem with them throwing the book at this guy based on what’s come out about the incident. The outrage being directed at him _based on his occupation_ is what I find a little bizarre and disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/22 "2008-12-15T15:22:40Z")
Does “First, do no harm” ring any bells? Yes, anyone who did this would be a jackass and should be prosecuted. But this guy took the Hypocritical Oath, so he’s an _extra_-special jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/23 "2008-12-15T17:35:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Does “First, do no harm” ring any bells? > > Yes, anyone who did this would be a jackass and should be prosecuted. But this guy took the Hypocritical Oath, so he’s an _extra_-special jackass. :::Snerk::: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/24 "2008-12-15T17:53:19Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > And I hope that ass gets a road rage charge as well. Sorry, but no. I’d say that was a completely normal reaction, considering some asshole had just almost run him down for no good reason. Try to kill or maim anyone, or to just scare them so badly that they thought you were trying to kill them, in other words, deliberately push the big red "DON’T TOUCH button, and just what do you expect to happen? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/25 "2008-12-15T17:54:05Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > What causes this, anyway? I’ve been cycling for several years in Japan on a near-daily basis, and I have never, I mean not one single time, encountered any gratuitous hostility from drivers, let alone with the frequency described in many of these threads. In fact, the number of times I’ve been honked at is lower than the number of times drivers at red lights have struck up conversations with me. > > Just what the hell is wrong with drivers in your countries? It’s all about predictable behavior. I have no idea what it is like in other countries, but my experience here is that (as I driver) I can not count on what any given cyclist is going to do. They have this thing where once second they act like a car and take up car space. But wait! A red light! Now they act like a pedestrian and run it. Then they’re a car again! All the while exuding moral superiority. Smug and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/26 "2008-12-15T19:08:28Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Does “First, do no harm” ring any bells? That advice pertains to a physician-patient relationship. Most medical authorities would frown on a doctor inducing road trauma in anyone he was treating. :dubious: I suspect that whatever criminal penalties this guy may suffer would pale in comparison to the threat of losing his medical license (it is common for state medical boards to revoke the license of anyone convicted of a felony, for example, and even a conviction on a lesser offense could be damaging). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/27 "2008-12-15T19:18:16Z")
Even so, it’s icing on the roadkill cake that this guy who’s deliberately trying to hurt bicyclists is a doctor, precisely because of that whole ‘heal, don’t harm’ thing. I don’t think his profession should necessarily make a difference in whatever sentence he gets, but it adds a level of irony/WTFness to the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/28 "2008-12-15T19:25:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, color me amazed that non-physicians could be considered ignorant of the consequences of such behavior. Should they get lighter sentences than “Dr. Dickhead” for causing bicyclists to crash? > > And would it be “karma” for non-MDs to get brought up on charges for dangerous road-rage behavior? > > I have no problem with them throwing the book at this guy based on what’s come out about the incident. The outrage being directed at him _based on his occupation_ is what I find a little bizarre and disturbing. The additional outrage regarding his chosen profession is that he took a Hippocratic Oath to do no harm and to avoid all intentional ill-doing, so yes it is particularly offensive that he is an MD. He should lose his license to practice imo. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/29 "2008-12-15T21:56:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, color me amazed that non-physicians could be considered ignorant of the consequences of such behavior. Should they get lighter sentences than “Dr. Dickhead” for causing bicyclists to crash? > > And would it be “karma” for non-MDs to get brought up on charges for dangerous road-rage behavior? > > I have no problem with them throwing the book at this guy based on what’s come out about the incident. The outrage being directed at him _based on his occupation_ is what I find a little bizarre and disturbing. Just out of curiousity - do you happen to remember the Pit Thread from a couple years back about the EMT who zapped a co-worker with the defibrillator, and killed her? People in that thread _seriously_ argued that he shouldn’t be punished too hard, since they didn’t know you could kill someone doing that. So, it seems to me that there is certainly room to believe that people on juries often make allowances for physical realities that laypersons may not be readily aware of. FTR, I do not supporting punishing dickhead doctor beyond the maximum the law allows, hyperbole in this thread to the contrary, but I also reject any idea that his position as a doctor should be anything but a reason to remove _any_ judicial considerations for moderating the sentence. My serious position here is that because he is a doctor and should be assumed to have first-hand knowledge of just what sort of physical injuries he was courting for the bicyclists counters any argument for leniency in what the judge may sentence this asshat to, once he is convicted. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/30 "2008-12-15T22:21:30Z")
Rick, I agree it looks bad, but: \*Peter Swarth, Thompson’s attorney, said that the incidents were an “unfortunate accident” and not a case of “road rage,” as some have suggested. “There is a whole other side to the story that will be brought out in trial,” he said. “There is much, much more, and it will be developed in court.”\* I want to hear the other side, 1st. Please keep an eye on this and give us an update, OK? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/31 "2008-12-15T23:34:04Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Not quite as bad, but it’s also hairy when some arsehole screams out of a vehicle window as they are going past you. :mad: Oh that makes me rage. If my chest were a canon I’d fire my very heart at the mobyDick. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/32 "2008-12-15T23:44:51Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] So, it seems to me that there is certainly room to believe that people on juries often make allowances for physical realities that laypersons may not be readily aware of. [/QUOTE] “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, when my client threw her old computer monitor out the 30th floor window of her apartment building, she _had no idea_ that it could harm anyone walking on the street below. After all, she’s not a _doctor_.” I submit that the incident referred to in the OP involves a matter of common sense, or the lack of it (among other things). There is no specialized knowledge that makes the (alleged) crime more grievous. And to anyone who experiences shock at the idea that a physician could commit such an offense (as seems to be the case with others in this thread), all I can say is: You’ve got a lot of true crime reading to catch up on. It was Sherlock Holmes who once said “When a doctor does go wrong, he is the first of criminals. He has nerve and he has knowledge.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/33 "2008-12-16T01:09:54Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Not quite as bad, but it’s also hairy when some arsehole screams out of a vehicle window as they are going past you. :mad: More fun when they throw empty or mostly empty beer bottles. More bizarre when they throw water balloons. What, they _prepped_ for this? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/34 "2008-12-16T03:01:52Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > All the while exuding moral superiority. Smug and dangerous. So are you the one with the beer bottle or the water balloon? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/35 "2008-12-16T04:47:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Rick, I agree it looks bad, but: > \*Peter Swarth, Thompson’s attorney, said that the incidents were an “unfortunate accident” and not a case of “road rage,” as some have suggested. > > “There is a whole other side to the story that will be brought out in trial,” he said. “There is much, much more, and it will be developed in court.”\* > > I want to hear the other side, 1st. Please keep an eye on this and give us an update, OK? While I agree with you that I too want to hear the other side, I am reminded of that old joke about the Scotsman "I am McTavish the best builder in this part of the country, but do they call me McTavish the builder? No. I designed and built the bridge over the river, but do they call me McTavish the bridge builder? No. I am a master stone mason, and built the stone church, but do they call me McTavish the stone mason? No But you fuck one little sheep… In this case you try and kill 4 bicyclists in 2 different incidents a couple of months apart, and people go and judge you before your trial. Doing this exact same action twice, is pretty close to the textbook definition of road rage. I will be all ears when the trial starts, but I have a feeling that my reaction to the defense lawyer will be :rolleyes: and :dubious:. If fact the mods may want to stock up before the trail, I may need a shitload of them. If the truth be told, I think the defense lawyer is just trying to put on a good face here. After all, what else could he say? My client is one lucky son-of-a-bitch that he didn’t kill these guys, and is only guilty of felony reckless driving instead of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/36 "2008-12-16T05:11:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, color me amazed that non-physicians could be considered ignorant of the consequences of such behavior. Should they get lighter sentences than “Dr. Dickhead” for causing bicyclists to crash? > > And would it be “karma” for non-MDs to get brought up on charges for dangerous road-rage behavior? > > I have no problem with them throwing the book at this guy based on what’s come out about the incident. The outrage being directed at him _based on his occupation_ is what I find a little bizarre and disturbing. From the OP in the linked thread > [@Rick](#): > > > [@L.A. Times story](#): > > > > According to Peterson, the driver emerged from the car and said he was a doctor. But “from that point on, he never offered any help,” Peterson said… > > Thompson’s biography on the website of his company, Touch Medix, says he spent 29 years as an emergency department doctor. He earned his medical degree at the University of Oklahoma > > Don’t doctors take the Hippocratic Oath in Oklahoma? I thought there was something in there about not doing any harm. Yeah here it is “and never do harm to anyone…keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing”" Well it looks like you blew that one off Sparky > And after announced that you were a doctor, who was trained in emergency medicine you stood around with one thumb up your ass and the other in your mouth. Apparently every five minutes you switched. Nice job. Does the term First Aid ring any fucking bells doctor? The article says you have 29 years of emergency medical experience. Or did you have 1 year of experience 29 times? Nice assist on two severely injured men, injuries that you caused. Instead of the Hippocratic oath did you take the Hypocrite oath instead? My RO at the doctor is for a couple of reasons. First off, while it is common sense that a car driver can seriously fuck up a bicyclist, an ER doctor has first hand experience is seeing the results of a car vs bike accident and you would think that that just maybe he might not assault a bike rider after seeing the results of such assaults over a 29 year career in emergency medicine. But what really chaps my hide is his getting out of his car and announcing that he is a **DOCTOR** , and then not lifting one finger to assist the people he injured. That pretty much seals the dickhead label for me. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/37 "2008-12-16T05:30:11Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > All the while exuding moral superiority. Smug and dangerous. > [@Sublight](#): > > So are you the one with the beer bottle or the water balloon? I’ll flesh this out a bit more. Your answer simply leads to the next question, what is it about drivers in your country that “he’s smug” leads rationally to “I must fling beer bottles at and/or run over him.” Because if you feel justified in wanting to try and kill somebody because they think they’re morally superior to you, guess what? They are. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/38 "2008-12-16T05:30:33Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > But what really chaps my hide is his getting out of his car and announcing that he is a **DOCTOR** , and then not lifting one finger to assist the people he injured. I don’t exactly how I’d react in the bicyclists’ position after being injured in this manner, but I don’t think I’d be real happy about having the driver of the car put his hands on me to “assist” in my care. So maybe the victims of this crash after hearing that he was a doctor told him to keep the hell away until emergency personnel arrived. Again, I hold no sympathy for the accused based on the stated facts. Your reaction and preoccupation with the fact that he’s an M.D. still seems over the top, including the use of the word “karma”. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/39 "2008-12-16T15:07:19Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > So are you the one with the beer bottle or the water balloon? NO ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/40 "2008-12-16T15:12:38Z")
Or to “flesh this out” a bit: How do we get from we pointing out why cyclists are annoying to many drives to me throwing thing at them? That is a pretty huge fucking leap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186.md?page=3)