# I love the smell of Karma in the morning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186 "2008-12-15T01:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/41 "2008-12-16T16:48:42Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Or to “flesh this out” a bit: How do we get from we pointing out why cyclists are annoying to many drives to me throwing thing at them? That is a pretty huge fucking leap. Yes it is. It was jerkish behavior on the part of those who messed with you. What bothers me (and I know this is a deep, deep irony), is that around here we have plenty of unused sidewalk space (they’renot good walking lengths), but bikers still ride on the roadway. That takes some _cohones_, but also very few brains. I’d rather face a possible ticket, assuming there are any cops who give a shit, than go around the semi-rural, semi-suburban blind curves and hills with the cars around here. Oh, well. The drivers who are really out there causing trouble, ironically, aren’t even really doing it out of hostility or malice. They think it’s _funny_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/42 "2008-12-16T16:52:52Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Back in the good old bad days, I’m retired now by the way, we had a clueless cage force it’s way into our tight pack from an expressway entrance. Real bad move. By the time that car got off the road, it looked like it was in a demolition derby just from fists and boots. The drive had wised up fast and made no move to get out of the car.) And see, this guy will likely take revenge on the next solo biker, and so forth. I mean how was moving through your pack excuse to do $1000’s of dollars of damage to his car? ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/43 "2008-12-16T17:13:42Z")
Hey! Friend **Rick**! Good to see another fine post by you and another one close to my own heart. I have suffered a similar experience but, as you may have guessed, I was on a motorcycle, not a bike. Thankfully it was fairly low speed (30-35ish) but unsettling just the same. A couple of decades ago some middle-aged couple tried the brake-slamming thing. First time my buddy and I (on separate bikes) thought there must have been something in the road ahead we failed to notice. The second time, I saw his wife looking back at us and speaking _just before_ the tires squealed. She was targeting us for him! We passed on the next opening, got a good bit ahead of them and I dropped my passenger off with him and his girlfriend at a bar on a side road. I then went back to the main street we’d been traveling on and continued in the same direction we had been, passing cars and trying to find them again. Four or five cars later, AHA, there they are. Since it is kinda dark they cannot tell I’m the same bike as before and I’m now traveling alone. Just a couple minutes into the following and BAM go the brakes! After braking hard I went to the shoulder on the right of the car, whipped the spare helmet off the back and put it to it’s best use. They departed rather abruptly and without further exchange. I feel as tho we communicated on some level that night and feel we are all better for it. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/44 "2008-12-16T18:00:01Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yes it is. It was jerkish behavior on the part of those who messed with you. > What bothers me (and I know this is a deep, deep irony), is that around here we have plenty of unused sidewalk space (they’renot good walking lengths), but bikers still ride on the roadway. That takes some _cohones_, but also very few brains. I’d rather face a possible ticket, assuming there are any cops who give a shit, than go around the semi-rural, semi-suburban blind curves and hills with the cars around here. > > Oh, well. The drivers who are really out there causing trouble, ironically, aren’t even really doing it out of hostility or malice. They think it’s _funny_. I don’t know about the laws in TN but here in CA it’s not about balls or brains or any lack thereof, it’s the law - when I’m on my bike I am required to ride in the street and I must operate my bike in accordance with all traffic regs, just like a car or motorcycle. Other drivers are also required by law to treat me like any other vehicle, which includes not driving recklessly near me, trying to force me off the road, telling me to get off the road, etc. It absolutely staggers me that someone behind the wheel of a car does these things to someone on a bicycle; yes it’s annoying to be stuck behind a slower moving vehicle, but in this case a very minor collision between the two will result in no harm to the driver and a trip to the hospital (or the morgue) for the biker. The cyclist will always lose that contest. Wait until it’s safe and then pass properly, the same as you do when someone is driving a car slowly. Think of it this way, the guy driving a 40’ bus has to obey the same laws as everyone else; how would the driver of a car feel if 20 tons of bus was being driven around them the same way as that doctor operated his car around bikes? If the bus driver thought it was “funny” would people think he wasn’t being hostile or malicious? It’s reckless disregard for the lives of other people. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/45 "2008-12-16T18:13:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And see, this guy will likely take revenge on the next solo biker, and so forth. I mean how was moving through your pack excuse to do $1000’s of dollars of damage to his car? Well, NO, I don’t think **she** will… 😉 Where is forcing your way into traffic OK morally or legally on a free ramp? Do you want to be on the road with a person who thinks forcing **her** way into a pack of bikers (not RUBS) riding in a tight pack is an okay way to do things? We were not legal either, but even the state police will not try to push into the middle of a pack. They might stop us all but they are not suicidal… YYMV Who cares, personal responsibility is dead in this country anyway… There never should be any consequences to a persons actions anymore. Just read the SDMB, you will see what an outdated concept that is… Bawahahaha Happened a long time ago in a world that is long gone and you could not understand anyway. Don’t worry about it, I was just telling what happened one time back when. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/46 "2008-12-16T18:23:51Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > …when I’m on my bike I am required to ride in the street and I must operate my bike in accordance with all traffic regs, just like a car or motorcycle… Be honest. Do you really do this? Not, mind you, that other drivers in cars are any great shakes at predictable behavior but my experience is that bike riders (probably due to their greater mobility) tend to want to be treated as a vehicle some of the time and as a pedestrian others and that it is not clear from one moment to the next which they are going to feel entitled to do. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/47 "2008-12-16T18:46:28Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Well, NO, I don’t think **she** will… 😉 > > Where is forcing your way into traffic OK morally or legally on a free ramp? > > Do you want to be on the road with a person who thinks forcing **her** way into a pack of bikers (not RUBS) riding in a tight pack is an okay way to do things? We were not legal either, but even the state police will not try to push into the middle of a pack. They might stop us all but they are not suicidal… > . _She_ might as have been seen in this thread, femals can also pull dirty dangerous tricks on cyclists. It may not be _OK morally or legally_ but taking the law into your own hands and dealing out a punishment far in excess of what the law or any reasonable person would mete is another thing. And you admit you were doing this illegally, but you figure you had the right be act illegally, but she didn’t. Yeah, I know Critical Mass cyclist do this sort of crap, which is one resaon why cyclists in general get no sympathy from me. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/48 "2008-12-16T18:47:06Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > From the OP in the linked threadMy RO at the doctor is for a couple of reasons. First off, while it is common sense that a car driver can seriously fuck up a bicyclist, an ER doctor has first hand experience is seeing the results of a car vs bike accident and you would think that that just maybe he might not assault a bike rider after seeing the results of such assaults over a 29 year career in emergency medicine. > But what really chaps my hide is his getting out of his car and announcing that he is a **DOCTOR** , and then not lifting one finger to assist the people he injured. > That pretty much seals the dickhead label for me. My “dark side” is showing here. Punch the good doctor right on the nose and tell him “physician, heal thyself” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/49 "2008-12-16T19:28:20Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Be honest. Do you really do this? Not, mind you, that other drivers in cars are any great shakes at predictable behavior but my experience is that bike riders (probably due to their greater mobility) tend to want to be treated as a vehicle some of the time and as a pedestrian others and that it is not clear from one moment to the next which they are going to feel entitled to do. Yes. I stop at stop signs. I wait for the light to change. I obey the right of way and yield to pedestrians. I don’t go zipping in and out of traffic. I wear my helmet, I use proper lights at night, I know the hand signals and I sure ride defensively - I have avoided a lot of accidents by assuming that (a) I’m invisible and (b) everyone is actively trying to hit me. Neither of these is necessarily true but it’s my ass on the line. This is exactly like driving (aside from the helmet), it ain’t hard. I am very aware of the fact that there are idiots on bikes just like there are idiots behind the wheel, and I operate both my bike and my truck in the way I’d like others to do because I can’t get too pissed off about other people breaking the laws if I’m doing the same thing. And while I’ve yelled loudly to get the attention of drivers who were ten feet (at speed) from running me over, I have not cussed them out, pounded on their car or done anything like that, even if I felt like it in the heat of the moment. It simply does not matter who is right or wrong, on a bike you are incredibly vulnerable to cars and there are people who just do not grasp this fact. Would they ram a pedestrian out of the way? Like I said, imagine yourself on the receiving end of that kind of behavior on the part of a guy driving a big bus or an 18-wheeler, or suppose you were at the gun range and somebody was getting mad and waving their pistol about, then decided to shoot you in the foot so that you’d hurry up and let them have their turn at the firing line. This is not in any way an excuse for cyclists breaking the law. We have the same “rights” and “responsibilities” in traffic as any other vehicle and if a biker runs a red light and gets hit by a car, that’s their own damn fault. However people driving cars need to know and obey the laws as well and one of the biggest principles is that you cannot operate your vehicle unsafely and go around creating a danger to other people on the road, even if they are inconveniencing you by their presence. My being delayed going up the hill because that cyclist can’t do 30mph is in no way an excuse for me to hit him. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/50 "2008-12-16T19:40:40Z")
The solution to all this hostility between cars and bikes is ice cream cones. One day a buddy and I were biking over to a friends house for nice Saturday afternoon visit and on the way some nice gentleman threw an ice cream cone out of his window and hit my friend on the side of his head. There was not enough force to knock my friend off of his bike but enough for the cone to splatter. Naturally we stopped so my friend could clean himself off and so I could catch my breath as I was laughing so hard I could barely breathe. To this day I thank the nice gentleman for giving me one of the greatest days of my life and a story I can use to spread cheer and joy across the land. Eventually my friend got over it and he now thinks it is funny too. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/51 "2008-12-16T20:18:54Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > It’s all about predictable behavior. I have no idea what it is like in other countries, but my experience here is that (as I driver) I can not count on what any given cyclist is going to do. They have this thing where once second they act like a car and take up car space. But wait! A red light! Now they act like a pedestrian and run it. Then they’re a car again! All the while exuding moral superiority. Smug and dangerous. As a cyclist, it makes me crazy when other cyclists do that. You’re either a vehicle or a pedestrian, pick one and _stick to it_. If you’re going to go into “pedestrian mode” to cross an intersection or use a cross-walk, get off your bike and walk it like a real pedestrian. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/52 "2008-12-17T01:52:54Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Be honest. Do you really do this? Not, mind you, that other drivers in cars are any great shakes at predictable behavior but my experience is that bike riders (probably due to their greater mobility) tend to want to be treated as a vehicle some of the time and as a pedestrian others and that it is not clear from one moment to the next which they are going to feel entitled to do. Yes I do follow every law when I am riding my bike. I stop for stop signs. I don’t just slow down, I unclick my shoe and put a foot down. I don’t ride on sidewalks. I stop for red lights (full honesty here, there is one left turn light on one of my Sat AM training rides that is a demand light and will not trip from the scant amount of metal in my bike. I stop for this light, and after a minute or so with no cars in any direction I run the red. I will bet you would do the same thing if the light refused to change when you were in your car) I don’t ride in crosswalks. I ride with traffic, and I stay to the right. I have lights on my bike and use hand signals. Shall I go on? As has been said, it my ass on the line, and if there is an accident, I want to make damn sure that I don’t leave the asshole that hits me any way to try and pin the blame on me. In short I follow the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/53 "2008-12-17T03:30:14Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Who cares, personal responsibility is dead in this country anyway… There never should be any consequences to a persons actions anymore. Just read the SDMB, you will see what an outdated concept that is… Bawahahah Yeah, I’m going to call BS on this. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/54 "2008-12-17T03:45:53Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Or to “flesh this out” a bit: How do we get from we pointing out why cyclists are annoying to many drives to me throwing thing at them? That is a pretty huge fucking leap. Because my question was why American drivers are so prone to violence toward cyclists. Your response was that cyclists are smug and think they’re superior, as if that justified the behavior. And yes, I stop at red lights and stop signs. I also travel the same speed as the cars on the street. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/55 "2008-12-17T05:07:22Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Because my question was why American drivers are so prone to violence toward cyclists. Your response was that cyclists are smug and think they’re superior, as if that justified the behavior.t. Not smug, but cyclists are violent back _"we had a clueless cage force it’s way into our tight pack from an expressway entrance. Real bad move. By the time that car got off the road, it looked like it was in a demolition derby just from fists and boots. The drive had wised up fast and made no move to get out of the car_" And it was a lone woman who this “hero” and his freinds terrorized. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/56 "2008-12-17T07:01:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not smug, but cyclists are violent back _"we had a clueless cage force it’s way into our tight pack from an expressway entrance. Real bad move. By the time that car got off the road, it looked like it was in a demolition derby just from fists and boots. The drive had wised up fast and made no move to get out of the car_" And it was a lone woman who this “hero” and his freinds terrorized. Nice. You’d be in a real snit if I told you what we used to do to a woman who had an infant in a car seat with her. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/57 "2008-12-17T09:01:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not smug, but cyclists are violent back _"we had a clueless cage force it’s way into our tight pack from an expressway entrance. Real bad move. By the time that car got off the road, it looked like it was in a demolition derby just from fists and boots. The drive had wised up fast and made no move to get out of the car_" And it was a lone woman who this “hero” and his freinds terrorized. Nice. Note your own use of the key word, “back”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/58 "2008-12-17T14:37:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not smug, but cyclists are violent back _"we had a clueless cage force it’s way into our tight pack from an expressway entrance. Real bad move. By the time that car got off the road, it looked like it was in a demolition derby just from fists and boots. The drive had wised up fast and made no move to get out of the car_" And it was a lone woman who this “hero” and his freinds terrorized. Nice. So that excuses the asswipe motorists who used to harass me last summer? They deserved to have their tires shot out. I’ve never damaged another car on my bike. Fantasized about it sometimes, but that was just blowing off steam. Even the cage. Please explain a how a car “forces” it’s self in with out risking running someone over? You have property damage of one person’s car vs putting the lives of all those bikers at risk. That asswipe driver doesn’t deserve a license or a car since he so reckless with other people’s lives. It’s a pitty they didn’t shatter his windshield. He should face criminal charges and stiff jail time. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/59 "2008-12-17T15:00:07Z")
Boots? Gus, were you on a _motorcycle_ or a _bicycle_? I wouldn’t find many people riding _bicycles_ on an _expressway_ wearing _boots_. Or calling cars ‘cages’, either. Maybe DrDeth should take the time to examine what he’s reading before accusing cyclists of being violent people? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186/60 "2008-12-17T23:06:28Z")
Bawahahaha, yeah, we were motor cyclists… Maybe you might say we were of the less civilized kind… he he he _I fear for you son if you expect people to read the black squiggly parts. That would mean that they could not make all those jumps to conclusions and stances of righteous indignation. That would spoil all their fun._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-love-the-smell-of-karma-in-the-morning/477186.md?page=4)