# I’m 65 and have $300,000 in student debt **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345 "2022-08-25T19:39:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/41 "2022-08-26T05:01:02Z")
For profit educational institutions. A lot of institutions have massive and growing endowments. Yet still raise tuition at steep year over year rates. So many institutions are also getting ever more top heavy in administration costs and increase in number of administration personnel versus teaching personnel. The line between for profit and other educational institutes is getting very fuzzy. I also wonder if the student loans are in any way being turned into the kind of financial instruments that mortgage backed securities were / are. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/42 "2022-08-26T05:18:18Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I see this “personal responsibility” thing come up often to defend for-profit corporations who lie and use persuasive techniques to get people to make decisions that benefit the corporation, not the individual. Sure, there is absolutely such a thing as personal responsibility, but it does not absolve bad actors just because they didn’t **force** the person to make the bad decision. > > I don’t know exactly what happened in this case, but these for profit colleges have a history of lying about the cost and value of their education, and pressuring students into sunk cost fallacies. How responsible is the person when they are making a decision based on wrong information? Caveat emptor. What I see is (mostly) a bunch of people whining because they were too stupid to do their due diligence. There are a few exceptions, but not all that many. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/43 "2022-08-26T10:47:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And she says, “I was not comfortable advising my children to achieve the highest level of education when I myself didn’t.” Well, that’s a dumb argument. A PhD isn’t necessary for many professions. It’s a dumb argument, but not because of the necessity (or lack thereof) of a PhD for any given profession. One need not have achieved a PhD before advising others to do so. My dad stopped at a bachelor’s degree, and my mom never went to college - and both were thrilled when I told them I was going for my doctorate. People can legitimately advise from a position of having lacked the opportunity and/or the ability, or simply regret at having passed up an opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/44 "2022-08-26T11:55:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > When making a student loan, does anyone check to see what they’re majoring in? Somebody made a decision to allow institutions to make these loans regardless of whether the student will likely be able to pay it back. There’s no accountability on those who make the loans. Why not? Because we’ve set it up so there doesn’t have to be any accountability as the debt cannot be discharged. In that case, lenders will lend money to engineering majors, and not women’s study majors. Better buy ear plugs, because the cries of “Sexism!! Discrimination!!!” from the left will be deafening. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/45 "2022-08-26T15:17:01Z")
Is it really possible to predict a student’s ability to repay a loan based on what they’re majoring in? Did you see @Kimstu’s excellent post in the other thread? > [@Thousands of dollars in student debt cancelled. Good news, right?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thousands-of-dollars-in-student-debt-cancelled-good-news-right/970242/195): > > Huh? What I see from [looking at sites that actually show quantitative data about labor market outcomes for different majors](https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market/college-labor-market_compare-majors.html) is quite different from what your generic anti-social-sciences sneering suggests. In that list, the highest unemployment rate is for Physics majors (7.7%). The majors of Psychology (3.9%), Communications (3.6%), and Liberal Arts (4.3%; I don’t see a listing specifically for Gender Studies, possibly reflecting the fact that at many institutions it’s an academic minor but … ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/46 "2022-08-26T15:18:15Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Somebody made a decision to allow institutions to make these loans regardless of whether the student will likely be able to pay it back. There’s no accountability on those who make the loans. Why not? Because we’ve set it up so there doesn’t have to be any accountability as the debt cannot be discharged. > > And the consequences of going into debt shouldn’t be peonage for the rest of your life. Bankruptcy is a course of action that should be available for student debts. Yes, and when you can’t repay the loan, the bank or lending institution bears the loss, not the taxpayer. When the government “cancels” student loans, the government (us as taxpayers) is paying off the loan to the lender. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/47 "2022-08-26T15:21:05Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Education is manifestly one of the “common goods” that many other advanced economies value and support appropriately. It pays cascading dividends. Apparently not so much here in the US. Many people who take out loans to further educate themselves, don’t complete their education, have no intention of ever repaying those loans, or didn’t convert that knowledge into the cascading dividends that would permit them to repay those loans. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/48 "2022-08-26T15:25:18Z")
And those things never happen in other countries? People in the UK, Europe, etc. always complete their education? Always convert the knowledge into cascading dividends? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/49 "2022-08-26T15:26:15Z")
Their system is wrong IMHO. Look at their economies vs the US. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/50 "2022-08-26T15:30:17Z")
Without going too far afield, quality of life is a complex and nuanced thing, not well characterized by a single metric. [https://stats.oecd.org/](https://stats.oecd.org/) I would say that most people who put the time into evaluating the US against the other advanced economies, across a wide spectrum of facially important metrics, would quickly abandon any notions of ‘American Exceptionalism.’ I don’t hold my breath, though. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/51 "2022-08-26T15:32:18Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Yes, and when you can’t repay the loan, the bank or lending institution bears the loss, not the taxpayer. When the government “cancels” student loans, the government (us as taxpayers) is paying off the loan to the lender. We set up a system we thought was going to assist many young Americans with achieving a college education, but it has the unintended side effect of leaving many of those students with crippling debts. There is no perfect solution here and continuing with the current situation is untenable. So us taxpayers are going to eat the cost and while I don’t like that I’ve made my peace with it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/52 "2022-08-26T15:32:53Z")
I would say it’s more of a personal preference. I use the metric that the US has more illegal immigration than most other countries, is an indication that the US is a desirable place to work and live. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/53 "2022-08-26T15:33:56Z")
What a quick reversal on your part. You initially said that the lenders should have some accountability. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/54 "2022-08-26T15:38:55Z")
They should, but unfortunately we set it up so they weren’t accountable. Egg on our face I guess. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/55 "2022-08-26T15:58:14Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I would say it’s more of a personal preference. I use the metric that the US has more illegal immigration than most other countries, is an indication that the US is a desirable place to work and live. And, arguably, heroin is the bee’s knees because of what people will do in order to get it. But it isn’t that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/56 "2022-08-26T15:59:16Z")
So you’re equating the American experience to herion, and that’s why so many people want to come here. Neat. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/57 "2022-08-26T15:59:23Z")
I see this article as click-bait intended to rile up the usual suspect, some of whom are posting here. I fully expect political candidates of a certain stripe to parrot this story ad infinitum. Some right-wing wag will surely come up with a catchy moniker for this person, ala “welfare queens in designer jeans”. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/58 "2022-08-26T16:00:21Z")
It’s not an article, it’s an editorial, from one person’s perspective. Whose intention was to sway our government to take pity on her. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/59 "2022-08-26T16:01:57Z")
I’m saying that something being a powerful draw, and compelling people to crawl through a burning building to get it, doesn’t necessarily mean that ‘something’ is inherently ‘good’ in ways that most people would define ‘good.’ ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345/60 "2022-08-26T16:03:35Z")
I personally think the American system allows for people to make themselves better than they were. That’s why I live here, and that’s why many millions of people try to come here. Why are you here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-m-65-and-have-300-000-in-student-debt/970345.md?page=4)