# I May Have Used Up Raiders of the Lost Ark **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466 "2012-03-01T17:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/1 "2012-03-01T17:46:43Z")
Decided I need a bit of light entertainment the other evening, so I put on **Raiders** , which I haven’t seen for some time. I’m sad to report I was, for the most part, bored. I’ve always known it had some plot holes and clumsy moments, but I hadn’t realised quite how many before now. The fact I noticed them is a sure sign I was less than engrossed. It’s a real shame, maybe if I can avoid seeing it for a decade or so I’ll be able to enjoy it again. Who else has gone through this with once-loved movies? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/2 "2012-03-01T18:19:07Z")
For me, it was (is) _ **The Third Man** _. The zither music drives me nuts and while there are still some beautiful, splendid moments, the garish stylization of the supporting characters and the bouncy tone are just off-putting. Still didn’t stop me from riding the ferris wheel when I went to Vienna, but it’s hard for me to sit through that movie anymore. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/3 "2012-03-01T18:26:14Z")
I love “The Great Escape” but dammit but that catchy theme music is played far too often. I begin noticing the soundtrack and not the dialog. ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/4 "2012-03-01T19:38:41Z")
I’ve used up “The Wizard of Oz,” “Gone With the Wind” and “Grand Illusion.” WoO because it’s just tooooo sappy, and the other 2 because I associate them with bad times in my life. I’ve just OD’d on “It’s A Wonderful Life.” I’ve seen it way too many times to enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/5 "2012-03-01T19:49:41Z")
I’m going to be cyber-eviscerated for admitting this but, _The Princess Bride_. Oh sure, I loved it the first four or five times I watched it, but with every viewing I became more and more aware of how, well, sexist, it is. Buttercup is forced into passivity and forced into a marriage she does not want. But not only does Westley not recognize that, he accuses her of being disloyal, mercenary, power-seeking blah blah blah. When Buttercup finally is allowed to be proactive about her fate (I.e., push her captor over a cliff) she is made to look ridiculous and forced to apologize when the Dread Pirate Roberts reveals who he is. I love all the other stuff in the movie, I just wish, if they couldn’t find a way to make her a real person and not just the object of a political ploy, they could have written the princess out of story. I cringe at how superficial, stereotyped, and whiny the character is written. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/6 "2012-03-01T20:02:44Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > I’m going to be cyber-eviscerated for admitting this but, _The Princess Bride_. Oh sure, I loved it the first four or five times I watched it, but with every viewing I became more and more aware of how, well, sexist, it is. Well you can’t really fault the movie for that, I mean the setting was the renaissance, after all. That’s like being disappointed at Roots for showing blacks as slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/7 "2012-03-01T20:22:33Z")
If you hate the movie now, better not read the book, which is not only sexist, but Buttercup is also extremely stupid. Not “making poor decisions” stupid, but “dumb as a box of rocks” stupid. And yet Westley is still smitten with her, knowing she’s that stupid. I’ve almost used up Rocky Horror, and that saddens me. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/8 "2012-03-01T20:26:31Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > If you hate the movie now, better not read the book, which is not only sexist, but Buttercup is also extremely stupid. Not “making poor decisions” stupid, but “dumb as a box of rocks” stupid. And yet Westley is still smitten with her, knowing she’s that stupid. > > I’ve almost used up Rocky Horror, and that saddens me. Well- Rocky Horror is NOT the movie, IMHO, so unless you are too tired on those special midnights, I would take exception to this- I haven’t ever been able to sit through the entire movie on DVD… ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/9 "2012-03-01T20:35:19Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > I’ve almost used up Rocky Horror, and that saddens me. Hold on, you’re implying you’ve watched more than 5 minutes of RHPS without a slice of toast in your hand? Holy smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/10 "2012-03-01T20:35:21Z")
Yeah, RotLA has plot holes, etc. But it has Karen Allen in her prime and she was just knock-down-drag-out beautiful. Also in Starman. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/11 "2012-03-01T20:57:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yeah, RotLA has plot holes, etc. But it has Karen Allen in her prime and she was just knock-down-drag-out beautiful. Also in Starman. I agree, and I also think she has aged very well. She is still hot in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/12 "2012-03-01T21:03:19Z")
No form of entertainment can withstand too many re-reads, -watches, -listens, -plays or -viewings IMHO. So I purposely avoid thrashing my favourite things too much to avoid burnout. In terms of movies it’s the original Star Wars trilogy for me. I went to a marathon rescreening of all three back to back just before the Phantom Menance came out and walked out a bit over the whole thing. Then TPM killed it completely, and I only bothered watching ATOTC and ROTS on TV! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/13 "2012-03-01T21:58:55Z")
I’ve almost reached this point with _Groundhog Day_. For several years I watched it just about every actual Groundhog Day, but then I realized I was growing bored and/or irritated with the movie. I never want to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/14 "2012-03-01T23:04:31Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > Well you can’t really fault the movie for that, I mean the setting was the renaissance, after all. That’s like being disappointed at Roots for showing blacks as slaves. It’s not exactly a documentary. The story invented two entire countries, a whole bunch of associated geography, two different types of monsters, assorted magic items, and a frickin’ _wizard_. A female character who had enough depth of character that she didn’t disappear when she turned sideways wouldn’t have been that much of a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/15 "2012-03-02T02:23:13Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > When Buttercup finally is allowed to be proactive about her fate (I.e., push her captor over a cliff) she is made to look ridiculous and forced to apologize when the Dread Pirate Roberts reveals who he is. Buttercup was hardly passive before that. She had already jumped into eel infested waters trying to escape, and was constantly insulting her captors. I’m not sure what more she could have done given that she isn’t one of the top sword fighters in the world, nor as strong as a giant. Besides, I always thought the audience was supposed to agree with Buttercup, not with Westley. “Why didn’t you wait for me?” Buttercup (and the audience) respond “well, you were dead.” “Death cannot stop true love. All it can do is delay it for awhile.” It’s a way for the movie to drive home the point that this is not our world. This is a fairy tail. Buttercup is voicing the audience’s response. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/16 "2012-03-02T02:31:52Z")
_Star Wars_ and the two movies following… I was a big fan when they were new/newish, but then I guess I saw them too many times. Nowadays I realize that _Annie Hall_ probably was the better picture (though, of course, not the most influential.) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/17 "2012-03-02T03:07:33Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > In terms of movies it’s the original Star Wars trilogy for me. I went to a marathon rescreening of all three back to back just before the Phantom Menance came out and walked out a bit over the whole thing. Then TPM killed it completely, and I only bothered watching ATOTC and ROTS on TV! In the mid 90s, I was in Australia for a month or so. At one point, I found myself staying in a motel in a small town in the Outback. I wasn’t in that town over a weekend, so the weeknight nightlife was negligible, and the motel room’s TV got all of three channels. Thankfully, the first Star Wars was on, so I got a takeout pizza and some beer, and settled in to watch an old favourite. Nope. The magic was gone. I knew all the lines and what was going to happen next. As I recall, I changed the channel–with only three channels, there was a choice of something like Melrose Place or Models Inc, or a talk show, or Star Wars. I opted for the talk show. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/18 "2012-03-02T04:26:33Z")
I saw Raiders in the theater and was pleasantly surprised. This was back in the day when you could know almost nothing about a big movie before it came out. What plot holes specifically bothered you? The only big one I can think of is how he survived the sub ride assuming it must have submerged. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/19 "2012-03-02T05:40:09Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > If you hate the movie now, better not read the book, which is not only sexist, but Buttercup is also extremely stupid. Not “making poor decisions” stupid, but “dumb as a box of rocks” stupid. And yet Westley is still smitten with her, knowing she’s that stupid. I’ve always kind of counted the way the book portrays her as a plus, actually. Lemme 'splain. No, there is too much, lemme sum up: In the movie, Buttercup seems to need Westley to take care of her and it’s not explained why, (and Robin Wright doesn’t come across as stupid enough) which makes it seem like it’s simply a sexist thing. In the book, it’s explicitly said that she’s dumber than a bag of hammers, so it’s not so much that Westley takes care of because she’s a woman, but because she happens to be none too bright, which could apply to anyone. And he loves her despite her being stupid, which is kind of sweet. It’s been years since I read the book though, so I might pick up something different if I read it again. And I’ve never much liked the way the scenes before the Dread Pirate Roberts revealed to her that he was Westley were played out in the movie. In the book he’s genuinely hurt and angry and trying to suss out if she really loves the prince before deciding whether to reveal himself; in the movie he’s too cheerful, playing with her and taunting her and it’s never rung true. Anyway, that’s not the movie I’ve used up myself. I’m afraid I may have used up Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I get to the Old Man in Scene 24 and say, “Eh, time for bed.” ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466/20 "2012-03-02T11:03:55Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > No form of entertainment can withstand too many re-reads, -watches, -listens, -plays or -viewings IMHO. So I purposely avoid thrashing my favourite things too much to avoid burnout. Same here. The sad thing is, I haven’t seen **Raiders** that many times. Five or six maybe, over more than two decades. > [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > What plot holes specifically bothered you? The only big one I can think of is how he survived the sub ride assuming it must have submerged. Yes, that’s the big one which most people are aware of. I’ve been on a couple museum subs, and the idea of hiding on one is laughable. WWII era subs mostly travelled on the surface, but they’d have had lookouts on the conning tower, and there is no-where to hide on the deck either. The rest were more cases of fridge logic than outright plot holes I suppose. I’m a bit reluctant to share them, as I think it’s a good idea to ignore this kind of thing where possible. I’ll spoiler one small example. When Indy is swimming to the Nazi sub, why are Katanga’s crew cheering him on like a racehorse? It’s not a credible reaction from the POV of those characters. We know Indy is the hero, but to them he’s just some grumpy beat-up guy they’ve only known for a few days. They are sitting there waiting to see if the Nazis are going to sink their ship or not. If Indy is discovered, the Nazis are going to know Katanga lied to them, and are more likely to take retribution. If they care about Marion and Indy, why would they think Indy had any chance of rescuing her? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-may-have-used-up-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/614466.md?page=2)