Cavalier, bigots like you would be amusing if you didn’t actually have influence on the impressionable.
Welcome to the boards, asshole.
The Catholic church’s refusal to allow women as priests was one of my Mom’s main reasons for breaking with them. Quite a tough decision for her I think, but her beliefs of the matter did not jive with the church’s.
Hope your path leads where you want it to.
Please, someone tell me that Cavalier was aiming for irony. Or something.
Oh my.
I am from a denomination that is currently divided on the issue of women in office, so I understand the frustration. It is hard to see talents go unused or not encouraged. Happily, many churches are becoming more open and at least tolerant of it, and at best encouraging and actively seeking women to lead.
Unfortunately, once this hurdle is cleared, there is still the matter of their position on homosexuality, but I can even say I see improvement in that area too. Some churches and individuals are courageous enough to lead the way, and hopefully others will follow when they see that other people besides straight males can be valuable leaders.
A girl can dream, right?
…
I’m hoping for irony on this, too. But it doesn’t smell like irony.
If it’s NOT ironic, however…cite? Because women are not all anything except biologically capable of bearing offspring, and even THAT isn’t true.
I was just hoping he was channeling either Paul or Timothy.
I would love to know how he comes by the idea that women are more “self-obsessed”. Beyond that? I can ignore what he said.
Does this Calling make my ass look fat?
Look at it this way: Cavalier sits at home alone, typing with one hand, the other firmly grasping a copy of the Reader’s Digest Condensed Tolkien, caught in some fantasy world where Tertullian (a strident, buggery Apologist in a neo-Roman African Protectorate) is somehow relevant. This person (never can tell – based on the femininity in the writing style, it might be a self-loathing woman) should take a little sojourn over to Tunisia and see the wonders of Tertullian Theology.
Cavalier’s just ignorant and vaginophobic. Who gives a crap what it thinks? Please don’t feed this troll.
Siege, haven’t heard from you in a while.
[/quote]
Women shouldn’t be in the priesthood, you can’t serve God by rejecting his word, I’m with the Pope on this one, which isn’t normally the case. I’m not even a Catholic.
Women are, as Tertullian said, the doorway to the devil. Silly, weakminded creatures unfit to teach, too easily led astray by the influence of satan.
With women in positions of power we get atrocities like this.
Women are also more self-obsessed, more likely to follow their own whims ahead of obeying God, as you would like to. There are ways for women to serve God, being a priest isn’t one of them.
[quote]
…
Riiiiight…
I just heard the Call of Cthulu!
Oh, wait, that’s a Metallica instrumental, never mind.
Sorry, I just had to do that.
Anyway, Siege, I hope this works out for you so that you are at peace with it. Speaking as a recovering Catholic myself, if you weren’t raised in the RCC, don’t give too much thought about the dogma flowing down from some bald headed old fart in Rome. From what I’ve seen of you on the SDMB, you are a very loving, kind, and smart lady, and, heathen that I am, I’d be delighted to hear of you doing something that joyfully fulfills you, no matter what it is.
Ah, he’s banned-wonder what pushed it over the edge.
I hate leaving my faith, because really, there are some things I LOVE connected with Catholicism-the beauty of it, the social justice Catholics (liberation theology ROCKS!) and the history and scholarly traditions.
But in my heart, I have to go with what I believe.
Guin–Looky. Seems to be a repeater.
What’s the church’s position on transgender priests?
Do you have to be a genetic male to answer a calling to serve?
Excuse me. I’ve been working my day job.
For the record, as I said, I’m Episcopalian and have never been anything else. I did consider Catholicism when I was engaged to a man who was Catholic (the one True Love I mentioned), but I couldn’t convert even for him. One of the things we had in common was we’d both considered the priesthood; another was a love of arguing religion. My home city’s pretty heavily Catholic, and my brother converted to Catholicism when he married a Catholic.
Part of what tugs at me is I know the Catholic Church is in sore need of good priests, and I have a hard time saying no to people in need. There’s also a lot to like about the Catholic church, both shallow and spiritual. Who knows? Maybe there’s even a bit of childhood pressure to conform lurking about under all this. The thing is, much as I’d like to help out, I can’t. I’m a reasonable Episcopalian; I’d be a lousy Catholic. Come on! I’d argue with the Pope in a heartbeat!
At the risk of sounding anti-Catholic, I’m about equally bothered by what I see of the arrogance of them referring to themselves as the Diocese and the way they don’t mention their denomination in their ad. As someone who’s neither fully Protestant nor Catholic, neither one’s the only game in town, and I am very happy being where I am. For heaven’s sake, if you’re talking about the Catholic diocese, say so! I won’t assume you’re recruiting pedophiles. If anything, I’ll probably be glad that you are trying to change perceptions and reach out to people who haven’t considered it, but tell me who you are so I know I don’t stand a chance.
As for the state of my spirituality, Mr. B, I don’t think I can fully explain it. It’s as much a part of me as being musical or having a knack for logic, and I can’t picture myself without it. I believe I serve God and I see His influence in my life, but I know I can’t prove it to the satisfaction of a determined Atheist. I’ve considered both the priesthood and entering a convent (both options for Episcopalian women, by the way), and if the time ever becomes right, I’ll do so. I’m not staying Episcopalian in the hope I’ll become a priest some day. Rather, I’m aware the latter is a possibility that exists, and the former is part of who I am. Ironically, a significant part of my spiritual walk has been done with the assistance of a couple of good Wiccan friends.
Feh! This is starting to read like a Live Journal! Given our current Archbishop, I’ve little doubt that if the time ever becomes appropriate, the Episcopal Church will find room for me in the priesthood. In the meantime, I’m still down to serve as chalicist on Sunday. Besides, if I quit being Episcopalian, who’ll takeover as Polycarp’s backup and sister?
CJ
Oh, as for Cavalier, I compared him to a gnat once. I’m happy to see he’s been appropriately swatted! Thanks Lynn!
Ah, John of the Azure Shade! I see!
What a :wally
Why does feminism have anything to do with women being priests? Men can’t be nuns after all. Being priest is not a position of power in the same sense that being some manager at work is. It’s a life of poverty, same as for nuns. And whatever corruption might have given priests power in prior centuries no longer exists. IANA Catholic, but I believe that nuns also receive the sacrament of Holy Orders, do they not? It’s just that the women become nuns and the men can become priests or monks.
I don’t think it’s about male supremacy with the Catholic Church, it’s about having different roles for the different genders. Unless you’re one of those feminists who believe that men and women are absolutely identical in everything except the naughty bits, then the Catholic policy shouldn’t upset you.
This is a 2000 year old church we’re talking about (if you count apostolic succession) and tradition is the thing that keeps them unified through the years. The priesthood is one of those traditional, unifying features, and such a radical and extreme change as allowing women into it would take away from the institution’s identity. Aside from tradition, the Catholic Church has a specific theology underlying their requirement of an all-male priesthood. For them, that a woman cannot become a priest is like the fact that a man cannot give birth to a baby, both facts are tied inextricably to the nature of what it means to be a man or a woman.
The Catholic Church adjusts its theology when new scientific facts come to light, and have been pretty progressive about that in recent centuries. To ask them to adjust their theology because something as ethereal as world opinion about gender has changed doesn’t seem the same to me, I think it’s a little unreasonable. In 100 years, world opinion might again favor separate spheres for the genders in some areas of life, would they then change it once more to match the present trend in thought?
Nuns take vows - usually of Poverty, Chastity and Obedience, but do not receive Holy Orders. That is reserved for men. And the priesthood is a relative position of power - only priests are allowed to celebrate the Eucharist (I do not believe that Deacons have this capability, though I could be wrong). And while men can’t be nuns, they do have a similar role as monks, although I believe some monks take Holy Orders and some don’t (I’m not sure and have not done a study of the various orders). For women, you get to be a sister/nun, married or single as your official role within the Church.
(And I just deleted a huge sort of off topic paragraph talking about what it’s like to be a single within the CC - at least in the diocese I currently reside in. Here, it’s like being a second-class citizen.)
Ah, yes, and defaming tens of thousands of good people who have chosen to serve God and their flock and would never harm a soul is such a mature way to handle your issues with Catholicism…
Deacons may preside over Eucharistic services, but cannot actually perform the act of consecration. Only priests have that faculty.