# I missed large chunks of the later Star Trek series. was there ever a specifically gay character? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 29, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300 "2009-06-29T00:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/1 "2009-06-29T00:44:37Z")
And no, the STNG race where everyone is some kind of quasi-hermaphrodite doesn’t count. Was there ever an explicitly gay Trek character? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/2 "2009-06-29T00:55:44Z")
Unless there was someone in one of the later films(after Undiscovered Country) I think the answer is no. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/3 "2009-06-29T00:56:50Z")
No (although Mirror Universe Kira Nerys was a narcissistic bisexual). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/4 "2009-06-29T02:09:50Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > No (although Mirror Universe Kira Nerys was a narcissistic bisexual). Emphasis on the narcissism. I don’t think we ever saw her show interest in women who weren’t her. Though, in all fairness, that’s not an unreasonable position to take - Nana Visitor is hot. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/5 "2009-06-29T02:17:28Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Emphasis on the narcissism. I don’t think we ever saw her show interest in women who weren’t her. Though, in all fairness, that’s not an unreasonable position to take - Nana Visitor is hot. I take it back, actually - I think Evil Kira has a thing for Evil (but still adorable) Ezri. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/6 "2009-06-29T02:38:13Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I take it back, actually - I think Evil Kira has a thing for Evil (but still adorable) Ezri. I think Mirror Lita hooked up with Mirror Ezri, or maybe Mirror Jadzia. I’m not sure. In the DS9 Mirror Universe, I think Sisko’s wife was the only female who wasn’t at least shown to be bi. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/7 "2009-06-29T03:26:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Was there ever an explicitly gay Trek character? On mid-1960s\* American TV? Are you nuts? It was outrageous when **Soap** had a clearly gay character in the 70s. \*I know it ran from 1966-1969, but they were revving up in 1964, which is when I first heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/8 "2009-06-29T03:29:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > On mid-1960s\* American TV? Are you nuts? It was outrageous when **Soap** had a clearly gay character in the 70s. I’m… pretty sure the OP isn’t asking about the original series. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/9 "2009-06-29T03:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m… pretty sure the OP isn’t asking about the original series. Sorry – didn’t see that word “later” in there. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/10 "2009-06-29T03:57:53Z")
There was a lesbian kiss between Jadzia Dax and the (currently female) host of another Symbiot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/11 "2009-06-29T04:00:31Z")
Check out the article on Memory Alpha about [sexuality](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Sexuality). While it doesn’t just cover “gay character[s]”, it exhaustively mentions all confirmed non-heterosexual characters in the Star Trek franchise canon. It also includes links to external sources that cover the subject more in depth. Oh, and the discussion page is pretty good, too. ETA: > [@Todderbob](#): > > There was a lesbian kiss between Jadzia Dax and the (currently female) host of another Symbiot. I almost mentioned that, but I figured it would be more helpful to provide the OP with the ability to check for him-/herself. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/12 "2009-06-29T04:22:03Z")
According to people in the know, Patrick Stewart, Whoopi Goldberg and Gates McFadden had been advocating to Gene Roddenberry that he put a gay character on the show, and that Roddenberry was coming around to the idea. But then he died, and Rick Berman, who took over as the executive producer was adamantly opposed to it, and said no whenever anybody affiliated with any of the shows brought it up. So, people stopped bringing it up. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/13 "2009-06-29T05:01:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > According to people in the know, Patrick Stewart, Whoopi Goldberg and Gates McFadden had been advocating to Gene Roddenberry that he put a gay character on the show, and that Roddenberry was coming around to the idea. But then he died, and Rick Berman, who took over as the executive producer was adamantly opposed to it, and said no whenever anybody affiliated with any of the shows brought it up. So, people stopped bringing it up. I was just coming in [to mention this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#Cast_and_crew_perspectives). It’s actually a source of contention/infamy among some circles of Trek fans, as I understand it. Another thing to thank Rick Berman for, huh? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/14 "2009-06-29T13:54:26Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > I was just coming in [to mention this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_Star_Trek#Cast_and_crew_perspectives). It’s actually a source of contention/infamy among some circles of Trek fans, as I understand it. > > Another thing to thank Rick Berman for, huh? :smack: Roddenberry had a vision. Berman had a bottom line. Note that I’m not saying that Roddenberry wasn’t mercenary with his vision. He sold the hell out of it. But the fact is that he had a framework that he never compromised on. It wasn’t perfect (miniskirts for the female crewmembers, despite the idea of equality between the sexes, comes to mind\*), but it was better than Berman’s black hole of suck that put the money before the ideal. \*Which reminds us that Roddenberry was a horndog, in addition to being the Great Bird of the Galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/15 "2009-06-29T14:09:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > According to people in the know, Patrick Stewart, Whoopi Goldberg and Gates McFadden had been advocating to Gene Roddenberry that he put a gay character on the show, and that Roddenberry was coming around to the idea. But then he died, and Rick Berman, who took over as the executive producer was adamantly opposed to it, and said no whenever anybody affiliated with any of the shows brought it up. So, people stopped bringing it up. I’m not a huge _Star Trek_ fan, but I saw George Takei on his Human Rights Campaign speaking tour and this is basically what he said when an audience member asked him about the lack of gay _Star Trek_ characters. He didn’t name names, but he said that by the end of his life Roddenberry as coming around to the idea and added that it wasn’t the studio or networks that were keeping it from happening. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/16 "2009-06-29T14:23:53Z")
In The Outcast where was a scene where Guinan in explaining to Soren the concept of love Berman showed up onset to make sure every couple in the background was man/woman. He also changed Guinan’s line from “when two people” to “when a man and a woman”. Whoopi Goldberg _refused_ to read the new line. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/17 "2009-06-29T14:35:27Z")
It would explain the ongoing man-crush that Q had on Picard… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/18 "2009-06-29T16:44:20Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > In The Outcast where was a scene where Guinan in explaining to Soren the concept of love Berman showed up onset to make sure every couple in the background was man/woman. He also changed Guinan’s line from “when two people” to “when a man and a woman”. Whoopi Goldberg _refused_ to read the new line. The episode was “The Offspring”, and the character she was talking to was Data’s “android daughter”, and I had always heard the story the other way around…that it was originally written as “when a man and a woman”, but that she changed it to “when two people”. It was also David Livingston who stopped a same sex couple from appearing in the scene, not Rick Berman. The other big story about homosexuality and The Next Generation comes from the episode “The Host”. The plot of the episode involves an ambassador from a species called the Trill. Trill are this species of alien horseshoe crabs who live inside humanoids and take over their bodies to compensate for the fact that they never developed opposible thumbs. Anyway, Dr. Crusher falls in love with the Trill, even after she discovers he’s a lobster in a man’s body. Then the Trill gets attacked by the bad guys, and is going to die, so they have to transplant it into Commander Riker. Dr. Crusher is kind of taken aback at first, but realizes that it’s still the Trill she loves, even though it’s in the body of her crewmate, but she loves him, not the body he’s in, so the romance continues. However, because Commander Riker’s human instead of a humanoid from the Trill planet, he can’t keep the Trill in him for very long. So, a humanoid from the Trill planet is gotten, and it turns out she’s female. The Trill gets in her body, and Dr. Crusher realizes that she doesn’t like chicks, freaks out by the whole thing, and breaks off the relationship, saying basically, “Look, I still care for you, but this is too weird”. Apparently, Gates McFadden was upset by this episode, because she considered it homophobic, and her character’s actions to be homophobic, and tried to get the ending changed. However, Gates McFadden didn’t have the kind of pull that Whoopi Goldberg does, nor the luxury to quit as matter of principle, so ultimately, the show ended as written. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/19 "2009-06-29T18:24:35Z")
I read that Lieutenant Hawk (played by Neal McDonough) from \*First Contact \*was supposed to be the first openly gay character on Star Trek. However when the movie was edited they took out all the references to his sexuality. According to Wikipedia, the “Tie-in novels (such as the Next Generation Section 31 novel, “Rogue”) refer to his homosexuality and introduce his family.” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300/20 "2009-06-29T21:43:24Z")
As mentioned upthread, Mirror Ezri had been in a romantic relationship with the bisexual Mirror Kira. Memory Alpha reminds me that after she broke it off and joined the rebellion, there was a scene that suggested she and Mirror Leeta were going to hook up. AFAIK, there was no suggestion that either character had any attraction to men, but they were only in the one episode, so it’s not like their romantic lives were fully explored. (In the main universe, both characters were apparently exclusively heterosexual.) –Cliffy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-missed-large-chunks-of-the-later-star-trek-series-was-there-ever-a-specifically-gay-character/501300.md?page=2)