# I must admit, I'm surprised and disappointed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 5, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956 "2012-11-05T15:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/21 "2012-11-05T15:55:47Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I wish they would do the honorable thing, and vote for a 3rd party. Might as well bay at the moon. The OP mentions “fair-minded GOP voters”. If this species is not actually extinct (can’t recall the last time I saw one in the wild) it is certainly endangered. Republican voters don’t give a flying fuck about fair elections- ALL they care about is the red team winning. If it means distributing the voting machines such that inner city voters have to wait 10 hours to vote, that’s fine with them. If it means disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of voters while hiding behind the figment of voter fraud, that’s fine with them. They don’t care if they have do cheat to win. Nor do they care if their candidate lies. Tell them Obama eliminated the work requirements for welfare, they eat it right up. Tell them Obama took $748 billion from Medicare, they swallow it whole. Tell them that Obama told the Italians to move Jeep production to China, they fake outrage with more conviction than their wives fake their orgasams. Think they’re going to demand tax returns? No, documentation is a one-way street. It only applies to Democrats, and even when provided it isn’t satisfactory. Think they care that Romney is secretive about their plans? Whatever for? All they need to know is that Romney isn’t Obama. Also that he is white. Think they care that he professes a religion that they find abhorrent? Not when they’re convinced that Obama professes one that they find even worse. You can’t make the mistake of trying to find reasons for Republicans to behave as they do- you just can’t. They are what they are, and they neither need nor have any coherent reasons. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/22 "2012-11-05T15:57:18Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Likewise, religion. Many voters don’t care about it, true, but those who do are rigidly insistent that the candidate they support will affirm religious views akin to their own. Obama, a mainstream Christian, does, and Romney, a prominent official in a loopy quasi-Christian cult, does not–yet this hasn’t hurt one tiny bit as far as I can tell. Actually there’s evidence Romney’s Mormon faith is holding down evangelical enthusiasm for him, at least a little bit. Of course, there are still millions of registered Republicans who believe Obama is a Muslim and/or was born in Kenya. One wonders if this election wouldn’t be an absolute flattening if those preposterous beliefs weren’t so popular. Romney’s closeness is hurt a bit by his being a Mormon, but the fact the election isn’t going to be a Democratic landslide is largely attributable to Obama’s being black (and therefore a Muslim and Kenyan.) So they’re both working against the evangelicals, really, it’s just Obama’s working against more. According toe CBS, as of this July, \*\*30 percent of conservatives said Obama was a Muslim. \*\*Rather incredibly, a full 40 percent of the American people didn’t know Romney was a Mormon. Astounding. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/23 "2012-11-05T15:59:58Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That Romney’s faith is the dog that didn’t bark is a good thing for America, and nothing to be disappointed about. > . I agree that it’s a good thing, but I was looking forward to the biter getting bit for once, and these bigots coming out in force to teach that weirdo cultie a thang or three 'bout the way we do thangs in thisere Yoo-nited States of Murka. I think Romney did choose well in running against a Negro, though. If he’d been up against a Methodist, or Presbyterian, or something, I wonder if it would mattered more. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/24 "2012-11-05T16:02:18Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Because how could _anybody_ not have wet drams about Obama? > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I will be hoisting several wet drams in his favor. Long live the 21st Amendment! I suffered premature ejection when I did that, when the bouncer finally tossed me out of the bar. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/25 "2012-11-05T16:03:41Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I suffered premature ejection when I did that, when the bouncer finally tossed me out of the bar. So, you showed your ‘ **O** ’ face? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/26 "2012-11-05T16:09:17Z")
[off-topic] Only vaguely apropos of the dram discussion, the National Constitution Center has an exhibit on Prohibition right now. Pretty cool stuff. Recommended if anyone happens to be in the Philly area through April. There was also, ironically, a boy scout career day there, and the DEA officer booth was right outside the exhibit. I’m not sure they appreciated the irony. [/off-topic] ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/27 "2012-11-05T16:16:55Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > So the eletion is close exclusively because GOP voters won’t decide to not vote for Romney; it has nothing to do with voters not being happy with Obama’s performance. > > Because how could _anybody_ not have wet drams about Obama? > > Got it. Yeah, I find it disappointing that these kinds of threads are so lacking in honest reflection on what Obama could have done better. As [this article goes into](http://www.salon.com/2012/11/03/why_is_the_left_defending_obama/), there are plenty of things that Obama did or didn’t do that probably explain why this is such a close race and the enthusiasm for O has waned: > [@](#): > > Let’s start with a basic problem – why is Obama in a tight race? Mitt Romney is more caricature than candidate, a horrifically cartoonish plutocrat whose campaign is staffed by people that allow secret tapings of obviously offensive statements. The Republican base finds Romney uninspiring, and Romney has been unable to provide one good reason to choose him except that he is not the incumbent. Yet, Barack Obama is in a dog fight with this clown. Why? It isn’t because a few critics are writing articles in places like Salon. The answer, if you look at the data, is that Barack Obama has been a terrible President and an enemy to progressives. Unemployment is high. American household income since the recovery started in 2009 has dropped 5%. Poverty has increased substantially. Home equity – the main store of wealth for the middle class – has dropped by $5-7 trillion, in contrast to the increase in financial asset values held by Obama’s friends and donors. And this was done explicitly through Obama’s policies. > > Obama came into office with a massive mandate, overwhelming control of Congress, hundreds of billions of TARP money to play with, the ability to prosecute Wall Street executives and break their power, and the opportunity for a massive stimulus. Most importantly, the country was willing to follow – the public believed his calls for change. Yet, instead of restructuring the economy and doing obvious things like hardening infrastructure against global warming, he entrenched oligarchy. This was explicit. Obama broke a whole series of campaign promises that would have helped the middle class. These promises would have reduced household debt, raised the minimum wage, stopped outsourcing, and protected workers. He broke these promises for a reason – Barack Obama uses his power for what he believes in, and Barack Obama is a conservative technocrat. Obama sided with Wall Street. He probably made the foreclosure crisis worse with a series of programs designed to help banks but marketed to help homeowners. These were his policies, they reflected the views of his most valued advisors like Robert Rubin and his Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. Moreover, he’s proud of this record – the only mistake he cites in his first term is inadequately communicating how effective he has been, focusing too much on getting the policy right. > > And the result is inequality in income gains that is higher than that under George W. Bush. Most of Obama’s defenders refuse to acknowledge Obama’s role in this policy mess. He deserves credit for the auto bailout, but when it comes to the bank bailouts, hey he’s just one man. What could we possibly expect? Yet, reelecting this man to a Presidency that is hamstrung by the system is the most important thing in the world. In other words, just as they’ve been arguing for years, Obama is both entirely powerless and utterly essential. Nah. None of that could possibly have anything to do with it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/28 "2012-11-05T16:18:34Z")
I forget the exaxt %age, but isn’t it accepted that 40% of the electorate goes to D, 40% to R, and the rest are ‘independent’? If those figures aren’t accurate, they’re close. Given that, the “R”-40 will vote that way regardless. Doesn’t matter if Romney is running against a, ahem “negro” (using ptrr’s wording), a woman, a Muslim, or a Lutheran. Doesn’t matter if he’s running against a lily-white evangelical “D” (hypothetical, people). So, excoriating them because it appears that they’re not voting for Obama because he’s a black Muslim is probably not very honest. Honestly, **BobLibDem** , I thought that the hate was supposed to be the purview of the right. Looks like you’re catching up. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/29 "2012-11-05T16:19:45Z")
I thought it was over when the 47% video came out, I thought even the cognitive dissonance fog must lift enough for Republican voters to realize Romney was talking shit about _them_. But no. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/30 "2012-11-05T16:19:45Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Nah. None of that could possibly have anything to do with it, right? 90%+ of liberals support Obama, who by all accounts are turning out as they did in 2008. If you think squeezing out the final 5-10% would make a difference, you’re just empirically incorrect. Obama is winning moderates 60/40, and losing Conservative 20/80. So the room for growth is among moderates, not the people who believe that Obama should have politically interfered with justice department prosecutions. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/31 "2012-11-05T16:22:18Z")
It’s the economy. Anybody with a sense of how the world works knew that whomever won the last election, would have a rough presidency. Obama made a lot of progress but he didn’t turn water into wine and he didn’t walk on water, so much of the US public is willing to vote for a flim-flam man like Romney. Romney’s 47% secret speech would have killed pretty much anybody in a normal economy. Also business owners, CEOs, co. presidents are all trying to scare the common man into voting for Romney. Instead of taking a hit (making just big money instead of big, big money) they are threatening people with their jobs and places of employment. These people are genuinely awful. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/32 "2012-11-05T16:23:27Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Yeah, I find it disappointing that these kinds of threads are so lacking in honest reflection on what Obama could have done better. Except that this thread is about people supporting Romney. None of the things in that manifesto you have now [posted twice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=670366) are a deterrent for most Romney supporters… Unless you feel that self-described Liberals are supporting Romney. Which is silly. You can make a case that they are simply not voting or voting for Jill Stein but that’s not a case to be made in this thread, now is it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/33 "2012-11-05T16:26:10Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I thought it was over when the 47% video came out, I thought even the cognitive dissonance fog must lift enough for Republican voters to realize Romney was talking shit about _them_. > > But no. It did make a dent but them Obama fucked up the first debate. Which is a shame because that happened right when there were rumblings that the money machine was going to start spending it on down-ticket races and initiatives. Although maybe it was a blessing in disguise: If Obama wins anyway, a lot of money that could have swayed other elections instead got “wasted” in the losing Romney effort. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/34 "2012-11-05T16:27:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I still find it amusing that none of the Republican nominee hopefuls ever polled as well as “generic Republican candidate”. Of course, the logical conclusion of that joke is that the GOP saw the writing on the wall and eventually nominated a “generic Republican candidate”. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/35 "2012-11-05T16:42:15Z")
Reasons why the race is close: 1. The economy 2. Racism ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/36 "2012-11-05T16:44:30Z")
Does it ever occur to Ds here that maybe the country actually is populated by a majority of people who agree with the R party? I agree that that is a repulsive idea, but it seems pretty obvious. This country \*\*re-\*\*elected GWB. Any possible issue breaks down at least 50/50. Face it, we are outnumbered by dumbshits. Virtually nothing will surprise you after that is understood. Disappointed, well yeah that’s still there. Obama’s first victory was the real surprise to me. A second will be a well-received shock. So much effort around here goes into thinking around the fact that half the people disagree with you… _but it just can’t be possible!_ It must be manipulation, or misunderstanding, or maliciousness, or what-have-you (ETA: or Racism of course!). Anything but honest to goodness difference of opinion, in huge numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/37 "2012-11-05T16:44:37Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > 1. Religion: I’m a little surprised that so many evangelical Christians are fine with Romney’s cult while continuing to revile Obama for his mainstream Xian beliefs. > Ideology trumps values, I suppose, so this was a little naive of me to expect otherwise. > [@RickJay](#): > > Actually there’s evidence Romney’s Mormon faith is holding down evangelical enthusiasm for him, at least a little bit. [CHRISTIANS MUST TAKE A STAND AND SAY “NO” TO SATAN THIS NOVEMBER!!!](http://votingforjesus.com/) > [@RickJay](#): > > Of course, there are still millions of registered Republicans who believe Obama is a Muslim and/or was born in Kenya. He’s a Muslim who sat in Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years. And his father was an atheist, a Muslim, _and_ a Communist. “Was he an atheist or a Muslim?” “ALL THREE!” These are the brainiacs supporting Mitt Romney. Beware the invasion of the … Buddhists? > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > [off-topic] > > Only vaguely apropos of the dram discussion, the National Constitution Center has an exhibit on Prohibition right now. Pretty cool stuff. Recommended if anyone happens to be in the Philly area through April. [/off-topic] You might find this article interesting: [Is John Boehner’s Congress Promoting Freedom, Opportunity, And Security For All Or For The Few?](http://www.winningwordsproject.com/is_john_boehners_congress_serving_the_common_good) > [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Yeah, I find it disappointing that these kinds of threads are so lacking in honest reflection on what Obama could have done better. > As > [this article goes into](http://www.salon.com/2012/11/03/why_is_the_left_defending_obama/), there are plenty of things that Obama did or didn’t do that probably explain why this is such a close race and the enthusiasm for O has waned: > > Nah. None of that could possibly have anything to do with it, right? Except that that entire analysis is filled with misinformation, so anyone who would use any of the reasoning presented there would be making their decision based on falsehoods. That first list of “failures”? “And this was done explicitly through Obama’s policies.” Sorry, but bullshit. “Obama came into office with a massive mandate, overwhelming control of Congress …” Bullshit. Obama came into office with a mandate, but only had control of Congress for a total of 72 days. And with over 700 filibusters in the Senate, we went from a system that merely required 51 votes to pass legislation, to suddenly needing 60, which is not how the Senate is supposed to work. To ignore that and lay the blame at Obama’s feet is utterly disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/38 "2012-11-05T16:49:23Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > Does it ever occur to Ds here that maybe the country actually is populated by a majority of people who agree with the R party? No, because polls on most individual issues/views tend to go the way of the Democratic view far more often than the Republican one. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/39 "2012-11-05T16:57:23Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Yeah, I find it disappointing that these kinds of threads are so lacking in honest reflection on what Obama could have done better. Aren’t you getting tired of this schtick yet? ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956/40 "2012-11-05T16:57:25Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > Does it ever occur to Ds here that maybe the country actually is populated by a majority of people who agree with the R party? I agree that that is a repulsive idea, but it seems pretty obvious. This country \*\*re-\*\*elected GWB. Any possible issue breaks down at least 50/50. Face it, we are outnumbered by dumbshits. Virtually nothing will surprise you after that is understood. Disappointed, well yeah that’s still there. Obama’s first victory was the real surprise to me. A second will be a well-received shock. > > So much effort around here goes into thinking around the fact that half the people disagree with you… _but it just can’t be possible!_ It must be manipulation, or misunderstanding, or maliciousness, or what-have-you (ETA: or Racism of course!). Anything but honest to goodness difference of opinion, in huge numbers. Actually, apart from the torture issue, most Americans support progressive issues ([http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/06/why\_a\_conservat.html](http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/06/why_a_conservat.html). I think the partisanship gets in the way, as most of us have a “team” that we lean towards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-admit-im-surprised-and-disappointed/639956.md?page=3)