# I must be a shoplifter. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520 "2004-12-24T20:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/61 "2004-12-29T19:25:30Z")
> [@AngelicGemma](#): > > **MercyStreet** , I would respond but **GaWd** has put it perfectly. 🙂 Danke. Unfortunately, objective journalism is a bit hard to come by as we are emotional creatures. Even with objectivity somewhat reduced, however, people can make a positive difference in cases like this, and if someone had a hard on for the BCF because of their treatment of customers, they would be justified in taking up the torch for other consumers treated like shit. Sam ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/62 "2004-12-30T03:46:28Z")
> [@MercyStreet](#): > > [This will be my only reply. I’m disgusted that someone would relish using the profession to right some personal wrong. What the hell are you talking about? The major “newzines” do expose’ type shows on crap like this all the time to “Right a Wrong”. Not to mention there are lots of “Andy Rooney” types who do little “why is it” type segments on local news stations in many cities. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/63 "2004-12-30T15:19:17Z")
Hello, MasterVisaAmex? … 0012 3456 7898 7654 … 12/06… Yes, I need to dispute a charge. You should show a charge entered for Burlington Coat Factory on or in the vicinity of 12/14? Yes, that’s the one, that’s right… well, I’m standing in their store right now and they are holding the referenced items in their hands right now and will not release them to me. … Yes, that is correct, I paid for the items and brought them back into the store to exchange them and now they believe that the transaction never took place. … No, I appreciate that, and thanks for offering to speak with them, but at this point I’d like to simply cancel the transaction and never deal with them again. … Thank you… yes, thank you… OK, very good, and thanks again. ::click:: ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/64 "2004-12-30T17:15:51Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Hello, MasterVisaAmex? … 0012 3456 7898 7654 … 12/06… Yes, I need to dispute a charge. You should show a charge entered for Burlington Coat Factory on or in the vicinity of 12/14? Yes, that’s the one, that’s right… well, I’m standing in their store right now and they are holding the referenced items in their hands right now and will not release them to me. … Yes, that is correct, I paid for the items and brought them back into the store to exchange them and now they believe that the transaction never took place. … No, I appreciate that, and thanks for offering to speak with them, but at this point I’d like to simply cancel the transaction and never deal with them again. … Thank you… yes, thank you… OK, very good, and thanks again. > > ::click:: Brilliant. Hopefully, done loudly (except for the card #, of course) And with that, I would imagine you waltz out of the store with a superior grin from ear to ear as the manager is looked upon derisively by customers and employees alike. Oh, sweet revenge. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BlueKangaroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@BlueKangaroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueKangaroo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/65 "2004-12-30T20:55:09Z")
Well, **Amberlei** , I got my winter coat two days ago. At Macy’s. So they lost at least one sale over this. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/66 "2004-12-31T00:17:25Z")
> [@MercyStreet](#): > > _Am I also a journalist? Yes. If I really hated a company, would I use an opportunity like this to screw them over? Hell yes!_ > > This will be my only reply. I’m disgusted that someone would relish using the profession to right some personal wrong. Man, you must really hate Nelly Bly and Ida Tarbell. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/67 "2004-12-31T06:53:21Z")
> [@Cinnamon Girl](#): > > Brilliant. Gotta agree with that. I’ve got to file that gambit in my arsenal of tactics to deal with annoying companies should I ever get stung in such a situation. Though not at Burlington Coat Factory, of course, since I’m too smart to ever deal with them again. A _damn_ impressive idea. Who said loud cell phone calls in public are annoying? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/68 "2004-12-31T09:02:49Z")
> [@BlueKangaroo](#): > > Well, **Amberlei** , I got my winter coat two days ago. > > At Macy’s. > > So they lost at least one sale over this. Good luck. Ya know? Something occured to me this weekend. What if WE all wrote letters too? Emailed our friends with copies of this OP, and so on? Dear BCF: a friend of mine experienced [situation in OP] in [insert OP’s city here]. i’m SO angry over this outrage that I’m quite content to shop at any other retailer than BCF from this point forward. And so are my friends in MY hometown [insert name of your hometown here]. I will be making sure that all of my friends hear about this incident and about BCF’s lack of customer care. etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/69 "2004-12-31T14:48:23Z")
I was once accused of shoplifting. It was in a card shop. A friend and I were standing at the candy display carefully considering which kind of gum to buy. The proprietor very rudely accused me of stealing the gum. I said that I hadn’t taken anything, but apparently, I looked “suspicious.” He ordered me to empty my pockets. My instinct was to just walk out. But since I was a teenager wearing a winter coat with very large pockets, I said “what the hell.” My pockets were chock full of all the crap that a slobby teenager would have in her pockets–gum wrappers, kleenex, stubby pencils, scraps of paper, rubber bands, etc. etc. etc. I started piling it on the counter. After a few seconds, they said, “That’s okay.” I kept pulling crap out of my pockets. They said “It’s okay. You can stop.” But I pulled everything out of my pockets, put in on the counter, and offered to empty my bookbag. They declined, and I walked out, leaving all my junk on their counter. That was a very satisfying experience. ---
**Author:** ![Kitchen\_Wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@Kitchen\_Wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kitchen_Wench)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/70 "2004-12-31T15:18:33Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Ya know? Something occured to me this weekend. What if WE all wrote letters too? Emailed our friends with copies of this OP, and so on? > > Dear BCF: a friend of mine experienced [situation in OP] in [insert OP’s city here]. i’m SO angry over this outrage that I’m quite content to shop at any other retailer than BCF from this point forward. And so are my friends in MY hometown [insert name of your hometown here]. > > I will be making sure that all of my friends hear about this incident and about BCF’s lack of customer care. etc etc etc. Part-time lurker here. I would be most happy to do this. We have 2 BCF here in the KC area, and they do indeed have a rep for being assholish on returns. As for the OP, your story infuriated me as well. I believe I’ve been to BCF only 3 times in my life, but your story combined with the accounts of a couple aquaintances has turned me completely off ever shopping there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/71 "2004-12-31T20:45:30Z")
_Returning_ things to BCF?!? :eek: I had so much problems _buying_ things at BCF that I don’t go there anymore. They were also sued by Burlinton Industries (the dudes who make coats, fabric, etc) years ago, and BCF has to include a tiny disclaimer that BCF is not associatedwith Burlington. That’s the kind of assholes BCF is run by- they deliberately picked a name of a well respected Company to try and associate with. So- note that BCF (the assholes) are not related to Burlington Industries. ---
**Author:** ![Jdeforrest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@Jdeforrest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jdeforrest)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/72 "2005-01-01T17:01:19Z")
My thought was to call the store manager and tell them not to reuse or destroy the surveillance tape from that day as it may be needed for a defamation suit. You may also want to note to them that destruction of evidence has resulted in court penalties reaching into several millions of dollars. That’ll put some fear of God into the manager. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/73 "2005-01-01T17:13:42Z")
> [@Jdeforrest](#): > > My thought was to call the store manager and tell them not to reuse or destroy the surveillance tape from that day as it may be needed for a defamation suit. You may also want to note to them that destruction of evidence has resulted in court penalties reaching into several millions of dollars. That’ll put some fear of God into the manager. Why would something so absolutely silly put the fear of anything into the manager? ---
**Author:** ![Jdeforrest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@Jdeforrest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jdeforrest)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/74 "2005-01-01T17:25:15Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Why would something so absolutely silly put the fear of anything into the manager? Because it would alert the manager that his prior actions are possibly going to cause a lawsuit against the store which will probably put his job on the line. Would make me nervous. It will also cause them to save the tape in case a lawsuit is filed against the store. That’s material evidence that you don’t want overwritten. Maybe the manager will even be really stupid and delete the tape anyway which would definately be in favor of the claimant. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/75 "2005-01-01T17:43:51Z")
> [@Jdeforrest](#): > > Because it would alert the manager that his prior actions are possibly going to cause a lawsuit against the store which will probably put his job on the line. Would make me nervous. It will also cause them to save the tape in case a lawsuit is filed against the store. That’s material evidence that you don’t want overwritten. Maybe the manager will even be really stupid and delete the tape anyway which would definately be in favor of the claimant. First of all, no it wouldn’t alert the manager to his actions. Secondly, a videotape with no audio could never prove defamation-so it’s existence as “material evidence”, is about as valuable as a piece of used chewing gum. Thirdly, retail managers hear this crap all the time, and it just causes their eyes to roll. Getting deeper into your idea that a person in the OPs position has been defamed, you must prove a couple things in court. 1- the Manager’s intent was malice aforethought. 2- THe customer suffered losses to be recovered in civil court. The manager was a moron, but he can always say that the OP looked familiar to him, or that security identified her(even if incorrectly), and he was looking out for the best interests of his company-I.E.- he was acting to protect his company, not doing it simply to inflict willful injury on the OPs reputation. On to losses, what are the OPs losses? SHe got her exchange(I think, right?). She had to endure what were probably some of the most embarassing 15 minutes of her life. But where is the loss? She was pissed and embarassed, understandably, but has she been irreparably harmed by the incident? Everytime she passes a BCF, does she exhibit signs of PTSD? No. She’s a pissed off and pissed on customer who will no longer shop BCFs stores. In fact, the opposite is true-BCF has suffered the irreparable loss. People in this thread refuse to shop there because of this and other examples of shittiness on the part of the managerial staff. The OP in this case comes out ahead, truly. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Jdeforrest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@Jdeforrest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jdeforrest)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/76 "2005-01-01T18:06:33Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > First of all, no it wouldn’t alert the manager to his actions. Secondly, a videotape with no audio could never prove defamation-so it’s existence as “material evidence”, is about as valuable as a piece of used chewing gum. Thirdly, retail managers hear this crap all the time, and it just causes their eyes to roll. > > Getting deeper into your idea that a person in the OPs position has been defamed, you must prove a couple things in court. 1- the Manager’s intent was malice aforethought. 2- THe customer suffered losses to be recovered in civil court. > > The manager was a moron, but he can always say that the OP looked familiar to him, or that security identified her(even if incorrectly), and he was looking out for the best interests of his company-I.E.- he was acting to protect his company, not doing it simply to inflict willful injury on the OPs reputation. > > On to losses, what are the OPs losses? SHe got her exchange(I think, right?). She had to endure what were probably some of the most embarassing 15 minutes of her life. But where is the loss? She was pissed and embarassed, understandably, but has she been irreparably harmed by the incident? Everytime she passes a BCF, does she exhibit signs of PTSD? No. She’s a pissed off and pissed on customer who will no longer shop BCFs stores. > > In fact, the opposite is true-BCF has suffered the irreparable loss. People in this thread refuse to shop there because of this and other examples of shittiness on the part of the managerial staff. The OP in this case comes out ahead, truly. > > Sam From [http://www.faceintel.com/defamation.htm#DEFAMATION](http://www.faceintel.com/defamation.htm#DEFAMATION): > [@](#): > > Slander is an oral statement that tends to injur you in respect to your office, profession, trade or business. The statement or statements generally suggest that you lack integrity, honesty, incompetence, or that you possess other reprehensible personal characteristics. > > \ > > A legal claim based on defamation entitles the victim to recover against the defamer for his or her emotional damages. In addition, the victim will be entitled to sue for punitive, or punishment, damages. > > There are other critical differences which make defamation important to be aware of. You can prove defamation on your word alone, even though it is always better to have some confirming evidence. ( a letter, a memo, an e-mail, statements from fellow employees confirming the defamatory remarks about you, etc.) You can testify in court as to statements made by others about you. This means that the “hearsay” rule does not apply to the testimony in court which repeats defamatory statements.made out of court. > > You do not have to prove damages in defamation cases. Damages are presumed. This means that you do not have to testify that you were emotionally destroyed or had to see a psychiatrist or other mental health specialist or doctor. Sounds like that may be enough grounds for a suit. I don’t see there has to be malice. From webster > [@](#): > > The utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another’s reputation It makes no mention of malice. Her losses were emotional and no she never did get to exchange her merchandise. The video tape proves that she didn’t steal the articles of clothing as well as shows actions of the manager even if it doesn’t have sound. The fact that the manager said that she “probably” stole the articles proves that he didn’t have beforehand knowledge that she had stolen the clothing. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/77 "2005-01-01T18:10:04Z")
> [@Jdeforrest](#): > > and no she never did get to exchange her merchandise. Yes she did. > [@](#): > > She then smiles at me, pats me condescendingly on the arm, and tells the cashier to go ahead and exchange the pants. Not that that makes BCF right in any way, of course. But she was able to do the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Jdeforrest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@Jdeforrest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jdeforrest)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/78 "2005-01-01T20:46:56Z")
[QUOTE=TellMeI’mNotCrazy] Yes she did. My bad. I misread this > [@](#): > > Needless to say, I left the extra items I’d attended to purchase there as she didn’t make the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/79 "2005-01-01T21:02:27Z")
Hey JD- > [@](#): > > “Defamation of Character is made with the intent – intentional or otherwise – to injure the reputation of someone else, but a really important aspect to defamation cases is that you’ve got to be able to prove that the comment was made with malice and that it was a false comment,” You have to prove injury, and you have to prove intent to cause the damage or malice by your comments. The damage may be assumed, but what are the damages that can be assumed? AFAIK, there is no set dollar amount for defaming someone, and as such in a civil court you would have to show what your damages were due to the incident. So as I said before, she got her merchandise returned/exchanged, and the only person whose reputation is soiled in this case if BCF. Not hers. Whether you agree or not, she comes out on top in this game. Sam ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520/80 "2005-01-03T15:33:56Z")
I was hoping we’d hear an update on this one, I was serious about the suggestion of US, as in we dopers, writing the BCF headquarters etc. Any new word on your letter to the BCF? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-be-a-shoplifter/281520.md?page=5)