# I must tell you the truth: gangs are a result of same sex marriage. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663 "2004-06-16T15:15:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/21 "2004-06-18T06:05:51Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > What, stab twirl punch pihouette? What’s wrong with that? No, it was the singing that made them so badd-ass. Good God man, did you even watch the movie? :rolleyes: (BTW, great line about Maria) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/22 "2004-06-18T10:09:08Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Just yell “CITE?”. You know, during the little sermon, I was _actually thinking_ “Cite :rolleyes: ?” I guess that’s a clear sign that I spend waaaaay too much time hanging out here! ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/23 "2004-06-18T10:18:23Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > You didn’t know that, did you? I certainly didn’t know it; well, not until last night, anyway. I’m the co-coordinator for our neighborhood’s Crime Watch, and as such, went to a meeting last night, at the AME Church, about recent gang activity in our area. The fact that the meeting was in a church didn’t worry me; our Crime Watch has meetings in a local church all the time, in the basement. Well, this meeting was a little different. It was in the main part of the church, with the pastor of the church leading the discussion. He (the pastor) felt obliged to open the meeting with something very much like a sermon. In the sermon, he said that gangs are merely our kids, giving in to the baser, more animal sides of their nature. Well, I can agree with that. Then he said this happens because families aren’t paying enough attention; if the kids had solid families at home, they wouldn’t be looking for “families” in the gangs; ok, to some degree I can agree with that (I think it’s a gross over-simplification, but not untrue). _Then_ comes the biggie: what are kids _supposed_ to do, when we see such a break down of society that it’s acceptable for a household to be made of all women or all men??? A household, according to this gentleman (and I use the term loosely) is “ordained by God, to be made of _one man_, _one woman_, expressing their love for one another in such a way that it shall bring forth others who will worship and praise Jesus”. > > For one thing, it’s my distinct impression that gangs have been around for way longer than homosexuality has been somewhat acceptable; for another thing, if you’re going to have a public meeting in your church, could you dispense with the sermonizing and Bible-thumping for a couple of hours? Please? > > If I use all the :rolleyes: that I think this situation deserves, there will be none left for other Dopers to use later. Why should the preacher not say what he feels in his own church? If i was him I would use the opportunity to say what I felt because he certainly could not say it in a public setting on public property without someone complaining but people don’t even want him to say what he wants in his own church. If someone comes into my home and I feel something needs to be said I’m going to say it especially if I couldn’t say it anywhere else, it’s the same thing with this pastor he had every right to say what he said. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/24 "2004-06-18T10:44:35Z")
**START** , I believe that he should say what he believes in his own church _when people come to church_. The people who attended this little meeting weren’t aware that a sermon went along with it. It was a public meeting (and I did thank him for opening his church to us); I didn’t really have a problem with opening with a prayer. Don’t know if anyone else did, but in this area, probably not. But I, personally, was there to talk about _real_ causes of gangs, and what to do about them. If the pastor disapproves of homosexuality, that’s perfectly within his rights. If he wants to preach about the sins of homosexuality during a church service, again, it’s within his rights. But when he uses a _public meeting_ to assert that gay households lead to gang involvement, whether it’s _his_ church or not, I think that goes beyond the borders. FWIW, I feel the same way about your own home. Let’s say, for a moment, that you are prejudiced agains Hispanics (I am not in any way implying that you are, I’m just using a hypothetical). You open your home to a group of people who are concerned about possible drug dealers in the neighborhood. During your welcoming speech, you say right out, that the drug dealers are a direct result of the Hispanics that moved into the neighborhood. You’ve crossed the line. Now, if you were to say something like “I don’t know about you, but it seems to me that the neighborhood has gotten worse since the Menendes family moved in a year and a half ago”, then that’s a gray area. But if you make a flat-out claim that this is what’s causing the problem, then you’re not in a gray area any more. You’re in the wrong. Unless you are ready to produce some documentation or other back-up, then you don’t spout your unfounded prejudices at a public meeting. ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/25 "2004-06-18T21:02:53Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > **START** , I believe that he should say what he believes in his own church _when people come to church_. The people who attended this little meeting weren’t aware that a sermon went along with it. It was a public meeting (and I did thank him for opening his church to us); I didn’t really have a problem with opening with a prayer. Don’t know if anyone else did, but in this area, probably not. But I, personally, was there to talk about _real_ causes of gangs, and what to do about them. If the pastor disapproves of homosexuality, that’s perfectly within his rights. If he wants to preach about the sins of homosexuality during a church service, again, it’s within his rights. But when he uses a _public meeting_ to assert that gay households lead to gang involvement, whether it’s _his_ church or not, I think that goes beyond the borders. FWIW, I feel the same way about your own home. Let’s say, for a moment, that you are prejudiced agains Hispanics (I am not in any way implying that you are, I’m just using a hypothetical). You open your home to a group of people who are concerned about possible drug dealers in the neighborhood. During your welcoming speech, you say right out, that the drug dealers are a direct result of the Hispanics that moved into the neighborhood. You’ve crossed the line. Now, if you were to say something like “I don’t know about you, but it seems to me that the neighborhood has gotten worse since the Menendes family moved in a year and a half ago”, then that’s a gray area. But if you make a flat-out claim that this is what’s causing the problem, then you’re not in a gray area any more. You’re in the wrong. Unless you are ready to produce some documentation or other back-up, then you don’t spout your unfounded prejudices at a public meeting. It’s just that people have the right to leave my house if they don’t like what I’m saying eventhough I would never say that and if they come back to my house then they should know what to expect…the same as if you go to his church then know what to expect and don’t get mad. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/26 "2004-06-18T21:23:06Z")
> [@START](#): > > It’s just that people have the right to leave my house if they don’t like what I’m saying eventhough I would never say that and if they come back to my house then they should know what to expect…the same as if you go to his church then know what to expect and don’t get mad. Please tell me what churches, religions or sects believe that homosexuality is a direct cause of gang activity. This guy sounds like he was grandstanding, and nothing more. He has no evidence, no supporting facts, nothing. Doing what he did was the act of a jackass, not someone trying to increase his flock. Now, he has every right to say what he wants in his church. But he can’t expect to say something that ignorant without either getting called out on it, or not asked to participate in the future. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/27 "2004-06-18T22:07:47Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by START_ > It’s just that people have the right to leave my house if they don’t like what I’m saying eventhough I would never say that and if they come back to my house then they should know what to expect…the same as if you go to his church then know what to expect and don’t get mad. If I am a guest in your house, am I not allowed to disagree with anything you say? Certainly, as a guest in your home, and as a guest in his church, disagreement would be expressed politely and respectfully, but I can still disagree. And you can believe that if you said something like (again, for the purposes of illustration, only): “Obesity is caused by the hole in the ozone layer” (on the basis that obesity has been rising steadily ever since science discovered the hole in the ozone layer), I would call you on it, even if it was in your home. Again, out of respect for you, I wouldn’t get up in your face and call you names, but I believe I wouldn’t be amiss to ask you for proof. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/28 "2004-06-18T22:08:19Z")
> [@START](#): > > It’s just that people have the right to leave my house if they don’t like what I’m saying eventhough I would never say that and if they come back to my house then they should know what to expect…the same as if you go to his church then know what to expect and don’t get mad. No. Read the OP again. It was a neighborhood watch meeting, not a sermon. It happened to be in a church. It was not a church service. When you go to a church service, and you don’t agree with what the pastor is saying, you’re welcome to leave. When you go to a public, secular, community meeting, you should not be subjected to someone’s sermonizing. Even if it is held in a church. Saying “they can leave if they want” is not an option. They want to do something to make their neighborhood safe, they don’t want to hear some blowhard spouting ignorance and trying to relate that to the issue at hand. Yes, anyone is free to believe whatever stupid thing he wants to believe. And people have the right to spout their idiocy at anyone they want. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn’t make it appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/29 "2004-06-18T22:36:19Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > You have been eaten by a grue. whats a grue? ---
**Author:** ![OneYogini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b9e5f3/32.png) [@OneYogini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneYogini)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/30 "2004-06-18T22:59:01Z")
> [@Papermache Prince](#): > > Suddenly I see _[West Side Story](http://www.westsidestory.com/site/level2/lyrics/krupke.html)_ in a whole new light!Gee, Officer Krupke, we’re very upset; > We never had the love that ev’ry child oughta get. > We ain’t no delinquents, > We’re misunderstood. > Deep down inside us \! **THAT** was so f(#$ing great! Thank you, thank you for that!! 😃 (BTW: I’ve nominated this thread for threadspotting because it is truly the best thread I’ve read all day! Thanks **Norine**! You guys rock!!) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/31 "2004-06-19T00:06:59Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > whats a grue? Nothing much. What’s a grue with you? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/32 "2004-06-19T00:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by One Yogini_ > (BTW: I’ve nominated this thread for threadspotting because it is truly the best thread I’ve read all day! Thanks Norine! You guys rock!!) Wow. I’ve never had a thread of mine nominated for Threadspotting before. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/33 "2004-06-22T07:20:22Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > No. Read the OP again. It was a neighborhood watch meeting, not a sermon. It happened to be in a church. It was not a church service. When you go to a church service, and you don’t agree with what the pastor is saying, you’re welcome to leave. When you go to a public, secular, community meeting, you should not be subjected to someone’s sermonizing. Even if it is held in a church. Saying “they can leave if they want” is not an option. They want to do something to make their neighborhood safe, they don’t want to hear some blowhard spouting ignorance and trying to relate that to the issue at hand. > > Yes, anyone is free to believe whatever stupid thing he wants to believe. And people have the right to spout their idiocy at anyone they want. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn’t make it appropriate. Finally got around to reading this^ Part of my point also is that the church is becoming more and more limited in when and where they can express their views so if you get some people from the public on your turf go for it. The other thing is that it doesn’t sound like he said “gangs are a result of same sex marriage” it sounds like his point was that society as a whole is less moral and rising crime rates as well as same sex marriages are some of the results…not that the two have anything directly to do with each other. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/34 "2004-06-22T11:06:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by START_ > Part of my point also is that the church is becoming more and more limited in when and where they can express their views so if you get some people from the public on your turf go for it. He is absolutely free to say whatever he wants in his church, but I am still absolutely free to disagree with him, and to write him a letter about the fact that I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/35 "2004-06-26T00:22:19Z")
Here a :rolleyes: , there a :rolleyes: every where a :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ! That’s all I have to add. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/36 "2004-06-26T01:10:03Z")
> [@START](#): > > Part of my point also is that the church is becoming more and more limited in when and where they can express their views so if you get some people from the public on your turf go for it. Again, no. The church is _not_ becoming more and more limited in when and where they can express their views. That’s absurd. Congregations are _every bit_ as free to believe what they want to believe, preach what they want to preach, and spread the word as much as they care to, as they were when we first came up with the idea of the separation of church and state. And that’s irrelevant; the point is that it was inappropriate to be sermonizing during a secular, public meeting. It’s inappropriate for a pastor to be offering his church as a venue for a meeting if he has an ulterior motive. You’ve seen the results right here; he didn’t convert **norinew** , he just pissed her off. Sounds like it was not only inappropriate, it was counter-productive. > [@START](#): > > The other thing is that it doesn’t sound like he said “gangs are a result of same sex marriage” it sounds like his point was that society as a whole is less moral and rising crime rates as well as same sex marriages are some of the results…not that the two have anything directly to do with each other. Oh, right, of course. No correlation implied. That’s just bullshit. The OP was there, she heard the pastor’s words, and she made the correlation. I’m reading your words here and I’m making the correlation. More troubling to me is what you’re saying here. “Society as a whole is less moral and same-sex marriage is the result?” You equate rising crime rates with same-sex marriages? You don’t see the problem in saying this? Maybe I’ve been too polite to you all this time. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/37 "2004-06-26T02:20:17Z")
Now that Lord Tebbit in England has gone public about homosexuality causing obesity, and this pastor has spoken out publicly about the well-documented gay-marriage/gang-activity connection, I feel it’s time to reveal some of the other horrors inflicted on the world since the legalization of same-sex marriage in the Netherlands in late 2000:[ul][li]the flu[/li][li]the common cold[/li][li]poor dental hygiene[/li][li]Anna Nicole Smith[/li][li]taffeta[/li][li]the principle of entropy[/li][li]bad Harry Potter fanfic[/li][li]death[/li][/ul] However, contrary to previous reports, the traditional institution of marriage must shoulder full burden for the existence of _Welcome Back, Kotter_. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663/38 "2004-06-26T02:33:26Z")
“Stupid gays who do it by choice. I know for a fact God wouldn’t make so many mistakes in the first place.” NOTE!!!: These are not my views IN ANY WAY just something I heard that fit the complete ignorance of other people mentioned in this thread. I just felt I should add it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-must-tell-you-the-truth-gangs-are-a-result-of-same-sex-marriage/250663.md?page=1)