# I need a flashlight at work. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708 "2005-09-08T20:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JonG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JonG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonG)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/1 "2005-09-08T20:35:47Z")
I am in need of some help finding the information on lighting levels in office and industrial areas and the affects of low lighting on shift workers. I work nights and my employer decided they could save a couple bucks by turning off 2/3 of the lighting at night. Some might see nothing in this, but I work around high power amplifiers, satellite tracking equipment for 13m antennas, and such. I have been to OSHA’s web site and it flat out sucks. Plain engrish to OSHA is not plain engrish to an engineering electronics tech, and then I have to present OSHA’s engrish to Da Man so they will understand that we need light at night to stay awake and do our jobs and make them money. DOWN WITH DAY WORKERS!!! They actually turn up the lights during the day and then close the blinds. Before I go off on a rant I’m go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/2 "2005-09-08T23:02:13Z")
Is this an office environment, or a factory floor? OSHA’s guidelines on [lighting at computer workstations](http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/wkstation_enviro.html#lighting). > [@](#): > > _…Generally, for paper tasks and offices with CRT displays, office lighting should range between 20 to 50 foot-candles. If LCD monitors are in use, higher levels of light are usually needed for the same viewing tasks (up to 73 foot-candles)…_ More on lighting with VDTs [here.](http://www.osha.gov/Publications/videoDisplay/videoDisplay.html) > [@](#): > > - In most offices, light fixtures and daylight provide illumination for work surfaces (e.g., 50-100 foot-candles). High illumination “washes out” images on the display screen; therefore, if possible, where VDTs are used, illumination levels should be somewhat lower (i.e., 28-50 foot-candles are often satisfactory).\* And for construction areas, there’s [http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show\_document?p\_table=STANDARDS&p\_id=10630](http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10630) > [@](#): > > _General. Construction areas, ramps, runways, corridors, offices, shops, and storage areas shall be lighted to not less than the minimum illumination intensities listed in Table D-3 while any work is in progress:_ And there follows Table D-3 “MINIMUM ILLUMINATION INTENSITIES IN FOOT-CANDLES”, which among other things, requires 30 footcandles for “First aid stations, infirmaries, and offices.” And [here](http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9867) are the standards for “telecommunications centers”, which doesn’t give footcandles, but which does say: > [@](#): > > _Illumination. Lighting in telecommunication centers shall be provided in an adequate amount such that continuing work operations, routine observations, and the passage of employees can be carried out in a safe and healthful manner. Certain specific tasks in centers, such as splicing cable and the maintenance and repair of equipment frame lineups, may require a higher level of illumination. In such cases, the employer shall install permanent lighting or portable supplemental lighting to attain a higher level of illumination shall be provided as needed to permit safe performance of the required task._ You could file a complaint. [http://www.ica.state.az.us/ADOSH/adoshfaq.htm#Q7](http://www.ica.state.az.us/ADOSH/adoshfaq.htm#Q7) > [@](#): > > \*Who can file a complaint with ADOSH? > > Anyone can file a complaint with ADOSH regarding unsafe working conditions. A complainant may choose to remain anonymous, if so desired.\* Complaint form is [here.](http://www.ica.state.az.us/Forms/oshacomp.pdf) You’re supposed to print it out and mail it in; they don’t accept electronic submissions. Mail it to the address on the bottom. Or there’s Plan B, if you can’t find a stamp. [http://www.osha.gov/oshdir/r09.html](http://www.osha.gov/oshdir/r09.html) > [@](#): > > - (800) 475-4019 (For Technical Assistance) > (800) 475-4020 (For Complaints - Accidents/Fatalities)\* ---
**Author:** ![JonG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JonG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonG)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/3 "2005-09-09T03:26:53Z")
I work in both an office and industrial area. Not really a factory floor, but we have huge ventilation systems, raised floors with cable ways, heavy lifting. We use test equipment to maintain the high power amplifiers and other equipment. I would like to resolve this with out getting myself fired. I have to be realistic about this though, when a big company wants to save money and their first actions are to turn off the lights with out first taking inputs from the employees, they pretty much don’t care about how it will affect its employees. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/4 "2005-09-09T03:33:10Z")
> [@JonG](#): > > I work in both an office and industrial area. Not really a factory floor, but we have huge ventilation systems, raised floors with cable ways, heavy lifting. We use test equipment to maintain the high power amplifiers and other equipment. > I would like to resolve this with out getting myself fired. I have to be realistic about this though, when a big company wants to save money and their first actions are to turn off the lights with out first taking inputs from the employees, they pretty much don’t care about how it will affect its employees. Even when said employees “…need light at night to stay awake and do our jobs and **make them money**.”? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/5 "2005-09-09T13:40:28Z")
> [@JonG](#): > > I would like to resolve this with out getting myself fired. Yeah, I see that. It seems to me that there’s adequate information on OSHA’s website in terms of actual numerical “footcandles” that you could take to your bosses and say, “Um…” Using the word “illumination” turns up a greater variety of hits in OSHA’s Search function than “light” or “lighting”, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![JonG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JonG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonG)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/6 "2005-09-11T12:10:03Z")
I brought my “illumination” concern to the HR manager and she told me that “the company really didn’t follow all the OSHA rules”. This bothered me on a lot of levels. I then by luck had a private one on one meeting with the operations director for all of our uplink sites and I showed and explained to him the information that I had found on the OSHA web site. He agreed and they turned the lights up on the mid shift. Thank you Duck Duck Goose for the research and links. You helped make it a lot easier. Gary T; I guess you don’t work in a corporate company that makes billions annually. The company I work for accepts all the liabilities they would have to spend money on to avoid, until they get caught and then pay to fix it. They saved all that money before they had to pay. Even if they receive a fine from OSHA or the FCC, the fine is so small in relation to how much they make that they easily pay it. They first appeal the fine and drag it out in court so long it gets reduced because they showed the minimum effort it took to remedy the problem and the courts just want to clear their docket. I do realize that the reason that the lights were turned on was that the company knew that the lights shouldn’t have been turned down. They waited to see who would complain and then turned the lights back up. The company doesn’t even buy the test equipment we really need to keep our equipment operating correctly. It has always been easier to send anything back to the vendor for repair, even after hiring the employees away from our vendors. Everybody is wondering “why are we working here?” Then we look at the three desks that twelve people share and see all the family photos. That’s why we put up with the crap. ---
**Author:** ![Jake4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jake4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake4)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/7 "2005-09-11T15:47:36Z")
Isn’t there a light switch you could flip on somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/8 "2005-09-11T17:37:46Z")
> [@JonG](#): > > I brought my “illumination” concern to the HR manager and she told me that “the company really didn’t follow all the OSHA rules”. Oh really. :rolleyes: Compliance with OSHA isn’t something that’s optional for employers; it’s a federal law, like the Americans With Disabilities Act. [Here](http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owasrch.search_form?p_doc_type=OSHACT&p_toc_level=0&p_keyvalue=) is the OSHA act itself. Under “General Duty Clause” right off the bat, it says " Each employer". Not, “Each employer who feels like it”– **“Each employer”.** So she really shouldn’t go around saying things out loud like, “We don’t follow the OSHA rules”. It’s like saying, “We don’t follow the ADA Act rules”. Is she really that stupid? You might forward this other linkie-poo to Catbert, Evil HR Director. OSHA has something called the “Enhanced Enforcement Program”, for repeat offenders, or as they marvelously put it, “for Employers Who Are Indifferent to Their Obligations Under the OSHA Act.” [http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show\_document?p\_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p\_id=24463](http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24463) There’s potentially more at stake than just a couple of piddly little $7,000 fines. There’s this: > [@](#): > > OSHA will ensure that the name of the overall corporate employer is included and searchable in OSHA’s IMIS system. She can watch how the former employees come out of the woodwork and gleefully start filing “yeah, me too” complaints, once OSHA declares their former boss to be fair game. And there’s this: > [@](#): > > OSHA at times issues local and national press releases on enforcement actions. We do not inform corporate headquarters about these actions. “Big Boss gets spanked by OSHA; film at 11. No opportunities for spin control will be provided beforehand.” And, finally, there’s this: > [@](#): > > In coordination with the Office of the Solicitor, OSHA will make greater use of settlement provisions designed to ensure future compliance. For all establishments that are the subject of a High Gravity Citation Case and who are seeking a settlement with the agency, we will consider including some or all of the following: > > ``` > * Requiring the employer to hire a consultant to develop a process to change the safety and health culture in the facility, > * Applying the agreement corporate-wide, > * In construction (and where appropriate, in general industry), use settlement agreements to obtain from employers a list of other job sites, > * Requiring the employer to submit to OSHA its Log of Injuries and Illnesses on a quarterly basis, and consent to OSHA conducting an inspection based on the report, or > * Obtaining employer consent to entry of a court enforcement order under Section 11(b) of the Act (see also the Henshaw/Scalia memo of September 18, 2002). > > ``` Once OSHA decides that her boss is a repeat offender, they never WILL get the Feds out of their hair. There will be endless reams of paperwork, and hearings, and more hearings, and court action, and OSHA inspectors and federally designated consultants hanging around at all hours, and bad press, and former employees weighing in with “Yeah, me too” complaints. And this will all affect not just her branch office, but the entire corporation. Much simpler, I would think, just to turn on the friggin’ lights. And you might also forward to her this link on the “Whistleblower Program”. If she pisses you off bad enough, you can turn her in, and there’s not a whole lot she can do to you afterwards without getting herself–and her boss–into even more hot water. [http://www.osha.gov/dep/oia/whistleblower/index.html](http://www.osha.gov/dep/oia/whistleblower/index.html) Is she somebody’s GF or what? Even Catbert isn’t that dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/9 "2005-09-11T17:51:31Z")
You might also remind your bosses that if someone gets seriously injured, and it’s found that it was due to NOT following OSHA regs, they’d be in a whole shitload of trouble, and the fines would NOT be something to right off. And even if they were, the publicity and bad PR would probably do them in. ---
**Author:** ![John\_F](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@John\_F](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_F)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/10 "2005-09-11T17:59:36Z")
“the company really didn’t follow all the OSHA rules” Said out loud?..What a fool! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![JonG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JonG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonG)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/11 "2005-09-12T21:50:23Z")
Yes, she really is that stupid, she doesn’t rate catbert. She isn’t that smart. She is a horrible HR manager. She never has an answer to any question asked of her. She always has to call the HR director in Texas. She always comes back with some flippant answer like “it’s the state law” or “it’s the federal law”. She can’t tell us what law she references. She tried to allow shifting work hours to avoid over time until we printed the state and federal laws and gave them to her. If it wasn’t for the fact that I really enjoy my work and the people I work with I would look for another job. The company started in the CEO’s garage about 25 years ago and he still runs the company the same way. All the engineering changes go through the VP and he has no idea what we are doing because he has his masters in accounting. I do thank you guys for letting me rant here. I am sure there are other companies that are new to the fortune 500 and just haven’t been caught doing things wrong because their employees need the jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/12 "2005-09-13T00:39:37Z")
> [@John F](#): > > “the company really didn’t follow all the OSHA rules” > > Said out loud?..What a fool! > > :smack: Not really. I bet that if JonG had said “I’m deaf, could you sent that to me in an e-mail?”, then he never would have gotten that e-mail. When I pulled cable, one boss told me that fire putty (stuff used to plug up holes in conduit in firewalls that cable runs through) was “mostly cosmetic”. I keep meaning to ask my fraternity brother/former roommate-who-is-now-a fire-investigator about this. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/13 "2005-09-13T16:59:32Z")
In OSHA matters, there is a big difference between theory and practice. OSHA’s budget and headcount have been gradually trimmed over the years. The rules are still there, but there are not many enforcers left. Your complaint about inadequate lighting would be in a long line behind hundreds of life-threatening violations. When an investigator finally has to choose between your dim lighting and somebody else’s cyanide fumes, your problem could get shuffled again. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-a-flashlight-at-work/320708/14 "2005-09-14T00:53:02Z")
But presumably Ms. NotAsBrightAsCatbert doesn’t _know_ that…and we certainly won’t _tell_ her… 😃