# I need advice about forgiving a friend. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522 "2010-06-25T20:00:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/81 "2010-06-26T21:02:30Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > You are handing the responsibility to her to deal with his feelings for him. There are a lot of people with social anxiety issues and many of them are not able to work because of them. That is unfortunate but it does not mean that he is not a fully competent adult in other ways. You are assuming that is so without any evidence at all. > > What’s worse is that with this assumption you have decided that she is the guilty party and that she somehow owes him because he seems to care for her in a way she does not care for him. I’m not sure where this owing starts or stops, but it seems to make a few men in this thread fairly angry. If he’s as broken as you’re alluding to then I’m not sure he should be in any kind of romantic relationship with anyone until he gets some help. > > I have male friends that I’ve known a long time. Over the years I’m sure there have been jokes which are sexual in nature although I can’t recall any off the top of my head. If any of them decided to send me a picture of their erect penis I’d be livid. > > This man knows now that she did not appreciate his photo. It should be crystal clear to him that his advances are unwelcome. If he is still willing to enter back into a friendship with her then it is _he_ who is responsible for his feelings, not her. She has already made it clear to him when she became so angry about the picture. She is not required to remind him over and over again that she doesn’t want to be with him romantically. If she did remind him over and over there would be an entirely different set of people in here condemning her for being cruel and arrogant. All she “owes” him is the truth and the clarity that there will never be a “them”. His sad little overture of sending his penis picture out makes it crystal clear that he does not have emotional clarity on this issue. For better or worse there is a huge power imbalance in a relationship where one person is crushing and the other is not. Regardless of whether he’s 14 or 40 she needs to tell him very unequivocally that there is no future, ever, for the two of them as a couple. Given the context of the relationship I hardly see this as an unbearable duty for her to undertake, but the vibe I’m getting from you is that asking her to do anything like this is simply unimaginable. Your intense negative reaction to the notion of it being the ethical thing to do to be utterly direct with him almost makes me think there actually might be something to the silly [Ladder Theory](http://www.laddertheory.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/82 "2010-06-26T21:20:04Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Your intense negative reaction to the notion of it being the ethical thing to do to be utterly direct with him almost makes me think there actually might be something to the silly [Ladder Theory](http://www.laddertheory.com/). Wow, I just read that Ladder Theory shit and now I need to wash my brain. With lye. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/83 "2010-06-26T21:36:24Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Your intense negative reaction to the notion of it being the ethical thing to do to be utterly direct with him almost makes me think there actually might be something to the silly [Ladder Theory](http://www.laddertheory.com/). Intense reaction? Hmmm, I think I’m starting to understand your sympathy for this man. I think you may have a bit of a hard time detecting emotion (or lack thereof) as well. The only thing intense I’ve felt in this thread is intense amusement when you said “Handicapped by his unilateral crush on her.” Ah yes the Ladder Theory. Something invented by someone who couldn’t accept that not everyone is going to be attracted to you just because you are attracted to them. Naturally the place I see it most brought up is here on the Straight Dope, home of the “This waitress smiled at me when she brought me my food so I think she wants me to ask her out” threads. So **Floaty** please, pretty please with sugar on top… please tell this guy AGAIN that you are only going to be his friend and that isn’t going to change, would ya? Oh I know there will be some who say that now you’re just rubbing his nose in it since you just shot him down over his uber romantic dick-pic but tell him one more time in case he thinks that maybe after fifteen years you’ll finally give in. No sense in forcing the poor, dear bastard to wait another five years. I’m sure just as soon as you tell him again everyone will say you’ve done the right thing (ha!) ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/84 "2010-06-26T22:07:51Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > So **Floaty** please, pretty please with sugar on top… please tell this guy AGAIN that you are only going to be his friend and that isn’t going to change, would ya? Oh I know there will be some who say that now you’re just rubbing his nose in it since you just shot him down over his uber romantic dick-pic but tell him one more time in case he thinks that maybe after fifteen years you’ll finally give in. No sense in forcing the poor, dear bastard to wait another five years. I’m sure just as soon as you tell him again everyone will say you’ve done the right thing (ha!) I already did back in November and I even said I did in this very thread! > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > As for the linked thread, yeah I told him exactly how I was feeling. He understood but wasn’t happy about it. But, as you know, people will read only what they want to read. And, as I also said in this thread, I’ve learned that with him I have to spell things out because he’s not good at picking up social cues. What I told him was that as things are now, with him living with his mom and not working, there is no future for the two of us. I did tell him that for there to be any chance, he has to, at minimum, have his own place and a job. I didn’t hint at anything, I told him straight up how it was. I also said that, in the meantime, if I meet someone and am interested in them, I am going to date them and he should do the same. If he did meet someone who would date him and accept things how they are right now, I would be happy for him, I told him this. That’s all I can do is tell him exactly how things are, I can’t control his thoughts or actions. And he’s not some dummy either. He has two degrees from the University of British Columbia, one in economics and the other is in some sort of politics thingy, I’m not sure. So now everyone in the thread will be happy, right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/85 "2010-06-26T22:45:39Z")
Glad things worked out, but be careful in the future just because it’s the considerate thing to do. That being said, I’m still goggling at the idea that there are grown men out there who think it’s remotely appropriate to send the object of your affection a penis picture without crystal clear knowledge that it wouldn’t cause offense. I would be pissed off if my _husband_ sent a penis picture to my cell (someone could see it- holy crap!), let alone someone I’m not even dating. Where the heck does this idea come from? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/86 "2010-06-27T00:11:48Z")
I know, the idea that my boyfriend of five years would ever take a picture of his penis and send it to me absolutely cracks me up. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/87 "2010-06-27T00:42:52Z")
**12:48 p.m.:** > [@](#): > > This is the last I will say on the topic… **6:07 p.m.:** > [@](#): > > But, as you know, people will _blah blah blah…_ One of my favorite Doper pastimes is to note _‘this is the last think I will post on this subject’_ remarks and calculate the interval until the person next posts. Less than six hours in this case. Very impressive. Carry on. mmm ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/88 "2010-06-27T00:47:08Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > **12:48 p.m.:** > > **6:07 p.m.:** > > One of my favorite Doper pastimes is to note _‘this is the last think I will post on this subject’_ remarks and calculate the interval until the person next posts. > > Less than six hours in this case. Very impressive. > > Carry on. > > mmm As you quoted, I said it was the last I’d say on that topic. I said it like that for a reason. My next post was about a different topic. I didn’t even mention anything about my OP. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/89 "2010-06-27T01:32:25Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > What I told him was that as things are now, with him living with his mom and not working, there is no future for the two of us. **I did tell him that for there to be any chance, he has to, at minimum, have his own place and a job.** I didn’t hint at anything, I told him straight up how it was. Bolding mine. Don’t you see, you’re _still doing it_. I totally agree that he made a _really_ bad call by sending you that picture, but he’s obviously smitten with you. And whatever logic he used to convince himself it was a good idea is going to keep trying to convince him that he has a shot with you as long as you keep telling him things like this. You tell us that you’ve been upfront with him about the fact that he’s ONLY A FRIEND, but then you turn around and say, “Wellllll… I mean, _if_ you had your own place, and _if_ you got a job, then, I mean, _maybe_ I’d go on a date with you.” I’m not trying to pile on, and like I said, it was uber-creepy to send you that pic (especially the way you described it in the OP, ewww), BUT. Whatever level this guy is working on isn’t going to let him extinguish this torch he has for you as long as you keep baiting him like this. No offense, but it sounds like you like the attention. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/90 "2010-06-27T01:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > My next post was about a different topic. Um, no. Your next post - indeed, this entire thread - is about your very unusual relationship with this man-child. mmm ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/91 "2010-06-27T01:37:17Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > Bolding mine. > > Don’t you see, you’re _still doing it_. I totally agree that he made a _really_ bad call by sending you that picture, but he’s obviously smitten with you. And whatever logic he used to convince himself it was a good idea is going to keep trying to convince him that he has a shot with you as long as you keep telling him things like this. > > You tell us that you’ve been upfront with him about the fact that he’s ONLY A FRIEND, but then you turn around and say, **"Wellllll… I mean, _if_ you had your own place, and _if_ you got a job, then, I mean, _maybe_ I’d go on a date with you**." That’s not what I said, at all. I did tell him in November that, at minimum, he has to get a job and not live with his mom for me to consider dating him. That is the truth. I’m very fond of him but there is no future with a 40 year old man who has no job and lives with his mom. If he had his own place and a job, I would date him in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/92 "2010-06-27T01:38:39Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Um, no. Your next post - indeed, this entire thread - is about your very unusual relationship with this man-child. > > mmm I am done with the whole picture, dick, camera topic. That was what my op was about. Lol, I thought the “mmm” was you making a sound like a lady with a hand on one hip and wagging her finger going “mmm”. I just realized it’s for your name. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/93 "2010-06-27T01:45:43Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > Bolding mine. > > Don’t you see, you’re _still doing it_. Not enough time to edit. I think maybe you didn’t read that I had that conversation with him last November. Are you thinking I just said this to him today? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/94 "2010-06-27T05:12:17Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Also, I understand that in online ads, guys post pictures of their Mr. Winkies all the time. Hell yeah. Sold my old car in less than a day. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/95 "2010-06-27T15:23:45Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Also, I understand that in online ads, guys post pictures of their Mr. Winkies all the time. It’s apparently a guy thing. 🙂 (As opposed to a guy’s thing, which I suppose it is, too.) There was a thread on this very board where DocCathode posted a link to a picture of his. [Darth Vader Voice] _You don’t know the POWER of an erect penis!_ [/DVV] 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/96 "2010-06-27T18:25:01Z")
Question to the guys–would seeing a picture of a dripping vagina from a female friend (who you’re not interested in dating) skeeve you or make you feel violated? Or would it just be more of a, “Huh. Vagina.” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/97 "2010-06-27T18:35:17Z")
Well that was the thing. Normal people don’t do that. I think the vast majority of men believe the guy was wrong to do what he did, but what got me was the whole OMGIMSOVIOLATEDDONTYOUKNOWABOUTMY PAST histrionics. If she has a problem with sexual issues in her life, then what the royal blue fuck is she doing even engaging in jokes about issues that might well lead down to areas she doesn’t want to get into? It is a whole boat load of neurotic self-victimhood. The followup wounded/defensive behavior with him and in this thread only clinches it. It’s all fun and games until someone steps across the imaginary line. EDIT: response to pic “Well, now I know what I’m getting myself into” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/98 "2010-06-27T23:43:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Hell yeah. Sold my old car in less than a day. Perhaps I should have specified “online dating ads.” Perhaps not. 🙂 > [@Chimera](#): > > There was a thread on this very board where DocCathode posted a link to a picture of his. > > [Darth Vader Voice] > > _You don’t know the POWER of an erect penis!_ > > [/DVV] > > 😛 Why does that have to keep popping up here? 😃 > [@Chimera](#): > > Well that was the thing. Normal people don’t do that. > > I think the vast majority of men believe the guy was wrong to do what he did, but what got me was the whole OMGIMSOVIOLATEDDONTYOUKNOWABOUTMY PAST histrionics. If she has a problem with sexual issues in her life, then what the royal blue fuck is she doing even engaging in jokes about issues that might well lead down to areas she doesn’t want to get into? It is a whole boat load of neurotic self-victimhood. The followup wounded/defensive behavior with him and in this thread only clinches it. > > It’s all fun and games until someone steps across the imaginary line.\ That’s my take on it, too. ---
**Author:** ![CTburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a5b964/32.png) [@CTburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CTburns)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/99 "2010-06-28T03:22:56Z")
I think it is obvious that you two need to take your relationship to its usual conclusion, and start dating! Enough with the Harry met Sally moments, it appears that you care for him and are interested in him, and he feels the same way about you. Why live such a complicated life? Keep us posted! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522/100 "2010-06-28T04:25:19Z")
> [@CTburns](#): > > I think it is obvious that you two need to take your relationship to its usual conclusion, and start dating! Enough with the Harry met Sally moments, it appears that you care for him and are interested in him, and he feels the same way about you. Why live such a complicated life? Keep us posted! Yeah… because what everybody wants as their life companion is somebody who doesn’t get that nobody wants to see your penis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-advice-about-forgiving-a-friend/544522.md?page=6)