# I need help with my English **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 13, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185 "2013-02-13T15:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jools](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@jools](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jools)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/1 "2013-02-13T15:21:08Z")
I have this legal document to write and the numbers have to be written in letters and digits. What are the rules for writing the numbers in letters? I’ve been looking online and basically I can find every thing, for example do I write forty nine or forty-nine? Is it eight hundred and forty or eight hundred and forty? The numbers I have to write go in the millions and I’d like to do it the best I can but the more I search the more I’m getting confused. Thank you for your help| ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/2 "2013-02-13T15:32:33Z")
Forty-nine. Eight hundred forty (no “and”). ---
**Author:** ![jools](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@jools](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jools)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/3 "2013-02-13T15:33:18Z")
Thank you very much Twickster, I really appreciate it! ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/4 "2013-02-13T19:00:37Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Eight hundred forty (no “and”). FYI, this would not be correct in Australian English. It would be “eight hundred and forty.” Also, I suspect, in British English. For most purposes, though, numbers up to ten are written as words, but for 11+, in numerals. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/5 "2013-02-13T20:23:31Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > For most purposes, though, numbers up to ten are written as words, but for 11+, in numerals. +1. Any professional writing style mandates this rule. Writing out “eight hundred forty” is confusing when you could just write “840.” ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/6 "2013-02-13T20:28:53Z")
having it written numerically and in words states the value twice which is needed for many legal situations. what **twickster** said for the USA. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/7 "2013-02-13T21:23:43Z")
In legal contexts, numerals are backed up by the number written out to prevent alteration, so you can’t easily change $1000 to $4000, or $1000 to 10000. “$1000 (one thousand dollars)” acts like a check. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/8 "2013-02-13T21:31:41Z")
If I remember correctly ‘and’ takes the place of a decimal point when written out. Eight hundred forty = 840. Eight hundred and forty = 800.40. I may not be remembering correctly though. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/9 "2013-02-13T22:51:30Z")
Writing out numbers in words and including them as digits is, to the best of my knowledge, never legally required and has the possibility of causing trouble if the two don’t match. There’s case law here in New York regarding which controls in case of a discrepancy; I forget right now. If I’m drafting something from scratch, I do my best to avoid this, though there’s plenty of lawyers out there ready to insist I put it back in just because it’s Always Done That Way So There Must Be Some Good Reason For It. There are historical reasons that it was done that way, which, IIRC, are basically what RealityChuck said. But there’s little reason for it now that everything is going to be word-processed. Of course, the usual disclaimers apply: I’m not your lawyer, this ain’t legal advice, check state law and act at your own risk, yadda yadda. But this is a pet peeve of mine so I couldn’t resist jumping in. And anyway, Judge Painter (an Ohio appeals court judge) included it in his book about legal writing. 🙂 Also, **sahirrnee** , I’ve never heard of that convention in American English at least, and would definitely not understand it that way. If I had to write out 800.40, I’d write it as “eight hundred and forty one-hundredths”. ---
**Author:** ![jools](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@jools](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jools)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/10 "2013-02-13T23:00:37Z")
Actually the document was a commercial lease with lot numbers. Those were the number that had to be written in letters and digits and all in caps on top of that, I swear lawyers :rolleyes: why make it simple when it can be complicated! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/11 "2013-02-13T23:06:52Z")
I agree with **LawMonkey** , in the US, I know of no rule requiring writing numbers and also using digits. It is one thing a legal writing professor tried to drum out of us in Law School. I don’t draft many contracts, but when I have, I just use one or the other, not both. It hasn’t been a problem yet. If I had to write $800.40 I would say “Eight hundred dollars and forty cents (US).” ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/12 "2013-02-13T23:58:29Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > Eight hundred and forty = 800.40. I hope this isn’t called for by any convention, as it is absolutely certain to cause confusion. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/13 "2013-02-14T00:08:53Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > If I remember correctly ‘and’ takes the place of a decimal point when written out. > > Eight hundred forty = 840. > Eight hundred and forty = 800.40. > > I may not be remembering correctly though. Either you are remembering correctly, or my English-Teacher-From-Hell mother had it wrong. For trivia (USA at least) - if a check has one number i digits and another in words, the written out words apply (in reality, the bank will hold it until they can establish what you meant). But yes, “and” = decimal point. Eight Hundred forty and forty = 840.40 Seven million, four hundred seventy three thousand, nine hundred thirty one and twelve = 7,473,931.12 Note that the commas go in the same places in the words as thry do ion the digits. You have my sympathies if there are many like that in your future. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/14 "2013-02-14T00:13:54Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > If I remember correctly ‘and’ takes the place of a decimal point when written out. > > Eight hundred forty = 840. > Eight hundred and forty = 800.40. > > I may not be remembering correctly though. This is not correct in American English. While a lot of style guides might eschew the “and” in the first case (840), in the second case the “and” by itself is insufficient to act as a decimal point by itself. In other words, in American English, both “eight hundred forty” and “eight hundred and forty” mean exactly the same thing, although schoolteachers might state a preference for omitting the “and.” ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/15 "2013-02-14T01:17:00Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Either you are remembering correctly, or my English-Teacher-From-Hell mother had it wrong. > > For trivia (USA at least) - if a check has one number i digits and another in words, the written out words apply (in reality, the bank will hold it until they can establish what you meant). > > But yes, “and” = decimal point. Eight Hundred forty and forty = 840.40 > > Seven million, four hundred seventy three thousand, nine hundred thirty one and twelve = 7,473,931.12 Note that the commas go in the same places in the words as thry do ion the digits. > > You have my sympathies if there are many like that in your future. At least I know I’m not the only one who learned this. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-help-with-my-english/650185/16 "2013-02-14T03:23:05Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Either you are remembering correctly, or my English-Teacher-From-Hell mother had it wrong. > > For trivia (USA at least) - if a check has one number i digits and another in words, the written out words apply (in reality, the bank will hold it until they can establish what you meant). > > But yes, “and” = decimal point. Eight Hundred forty and forty = 840.40 > > Seven million, four hundred seventy three thousand, nine hundred thirty one and twelve = 7,473,931.12 Note that the commas go in the same places in the words as thry do ion the digits. Your schoolteacher might have taught you that, but a bank won’t read it that way. The “and” doesn’t play such an unambiguous role. If you write “eight hundred forty and forty (dollars),” the bank will look to the figures to work out what you’re trying to say. TThese are all correct ways to write a check: Eight-hundred, forty and 40/100 (dollars) Eight-hundred, forty dollars and forty cents