# I need to protest: Not all women like bad guys **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 19, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929 "2005-02-19T19:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/21 "2005-02-20T16:29:29Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > This whole thing is a bit odd. I consider myself firmly in the “nice guy” camp, but I recently shaved my head due to thinning hair, and the resultant “badass” look is getting me quite a bit more nookie. > > Who knew? I’m not getting any more nookie (or any less) with the shaved head, earring, slightly scarred look, but it has gotten me a bit more attention. That said, I’m a fairly nice guy in my own right and I’ve landed myself a hot little thing. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/22 "2005-02-20T17:04:01Z")
> [@Gadfly](#): > > I think a lot of nice guys confuse “girls like bad guys” with “girls like confident guys”. I think a lot of girls confuse “bad guys” with “confident guys”. So there. 😃 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/23 "2005-02-20T22:18:40Z")
There’s always _this_ high-powered intellectual brain barbeque going on in Great Debates right now: > **[Why Would anyone Marry an Incarcerated felon?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303408)** > > I am puzzled by te phenomenon of women marrying convicted criminals, who are residents in prisons. First: if he was convicted of a violent crime, he is most likely, dangerous. Second: if he’s in for 20-40 years, do you REALLY want to wait that... ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/24 "2005-02-20T22:57:16Z")
Perhaps the best bet for the nice guys is to cultivate a few bad-boy trappings. Not the assholery, just a few of the props. Confidence (I know, I know, easier said than done–I’m shy, so I know the trouble it can be), earrings. I have a major thing for men with pierced ears. To me, they’re easily as much of a draw as well-fitting jeans. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/25 "2005-02-20T23:07:42Z")
I agree. I am all about the stable, job-holding/self-employed guy with a unique personality and a sense of humour. Drugs\* + assholey confidence (i.e. confidence involving being a jerk to other men and women) + anything stereotypically labelled “dangerous” makes me run the other way. \*By this I mean anything more than smoking weed once in a very long way. I don’t indulge but I don’t care if people take a hit off a bong at a party once in a while. Anything more than that makes my “loser” radar go off. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/26 "2005-02-20T23:14:11Z")
> [@Harimad-sol](#): > > I have a major thing for men with pierced ears. To me, they’re easily as much of a draw as well-fitting jeans. Mmmm, yes. Me too. An otherwise quiet guy with pierced ears automatically gets upgraded from “shy” to “confident” in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Keapon\_Laffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@Keapon\_Laffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keapon_Laffin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/27 "2005-02-20T23:26:24Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > Mmmm, yes. Me too. An otherwise quiet guy with pierced ears automatically gets upgraded from “shy” to “confident” in my mind. You know you just caused a large majority of male Dopers to pierce their ears, right? 😃 Then we’ll start seeing a new Photo thread with all these guys showing off their new sparklies. … bwahahahahahaha… ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/28 "2005-02-21T01:04:43Z")
> [@Keapon Laffin](#): > > You know you just caused a large majority of male Dopers to pierce their ears, right? > 😃 > Then we’ll start seeing a new Photo thread with all these guys showing off their new sparklies. > … > bwahahahahahaha… [Already done.](http://www.sunspace.org/me_and_zach.jpg) 😃 [sub]…in 1994. 🙂 [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/29 "2005-02-21T01:09:07Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > [Already done.](http://www.sunspace.org/me_and_zach.jpg) 😃 > > [sub]…in 1994. 🙂 [/sub] How long does it take to get to Toronto from here? I can’t remember. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/30 "2005-02-21T01:11:51Z")
That depends on where you are now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/31 "2005-02-21T01:22:42Z")
I think there’s something real beyond just stereotyping here, and I think it’s age-related. Many young girls go thru the stage of wanting bad boys, it’s a great rebellion thing when you’re first trying to spread your wings. Parents are always cautioning “nice girls don’t do this or that” and quite definitely bad boys are on the list. Add in the saviour mentality, some sort of nurturing earth-momma vibe liberally mixed with a million literary and cultural references to the great guy underneath who’s just been hurt and needs a little TLC to really shine, and yeah, plenty of _young_ women really are fascinated by bad boys. I’d go so far as to call it nearly a rite of passage, it’s normal. Sure I crushed on Wolverine as a teenager, now that I’m in my 30s I crush on Dr.McCoy instead. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/32 "2005-02-21T01:27:24Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > That depends on where you are now. 🙂 Last time I went, it took seven hours by plane. And three and half hours sitting on the runway waiting for a rainstorm to abate! ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/33 "2005-02-21T06:03:02Z")
I have this friend. I used to think he was pretty nice. He’s usually considerate, friendly, easy to get along with. Then he started dating the woman I was (and am) really attracted to. What a fucking asshole, eh? Just goes to show, I think. (I’ll leave it to you to draw any morals from this tale.) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/34 "2005-02-21T13:52:41Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Anybody ever actually do a scientifically valid studies about “bad guys” and the women who hook up with them? > > How about one on “bad girls”, and the guys who are hot for them? > > In other words, is there any evidence that this phenomenon is statistically more significant for one sex over the other? > > Didn’t think so. My guess would be that we’re not looking at a representative sample–we only hear stories from guys about the bad guy that stole their girl, or from gals who lost their man to a wanton woman. We’re not going to hear from the guy who whines that that claims clerk from down the hall stole his girlfriend, or the woman saying that the librarian stole her man… … come to think of it, I lost a girlfriend once to a bassoon player… ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/35 "2005-02-21T14:00:56Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > motorcycle/swings on a trapeze/does something outrageous Ah hah. All I have to do to rake in the babes is polish my bad guy motorcycle heavy metal trapeze act. And then I’ll be in like Flint. Whoohoo! Sorta more on topic…IMO, the whole bad guy thing is probably do to women having a preference to men who aren’t boring. Guys who call themselves “nice guys” tend to be bland milk sops. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Side_of_the_Floyd)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/36 "2005-02-21T14:26:55Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > I have this friend. I used to think he was pretty nice. He’s usually considerate, friendly, easy to get along with. > > Then he started dating the woman I was (and am) really attracted to. > > What a fucking asshole, eh? > > Just goes to show, I think. > > (I’ll leave it to you to draw any morals from this tale.) If I’m not being whooshed, I’d say that depended on whether or not he knew you liked her. If he knew, then yes, he was an ass. But I have this ominous feeling I’m being whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/37 "2005-02-21T15:09:44Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > I ask that you forgive the profanity in the following, wherein I will be replacing the term “bad guy” with “asshole”. I do this because it seems a more accurate term for the type of man I believe we’re discussing, and because I find it more suitable to the specific perception being discussed. > > Proposition: !(_All_ women _only_ date assholes) Accepted. Now, can we see where that statement still leaves room for a scenario that might create impressions to the contrary? Heck, even !(_Most_ women _generally_ date assholes), which in and of itself would probably meet with some argument from the more frequently burninated representatives of my gender, isn’t a very far-reaching statement if accepted at face value. > > In my personal experience, and that of many others, many women seem to choose to date men who are assholes. Now, factoring into that, we have: > > 1. The fact that the definition of “asshole” is subjective, and if we’re using mine (which, when considering my experience, we are), we are referring to roughly 90% of the male population, leaving women (who, oddly, comprise 100% of the other 50% of the population) without a heck of a lot of choice. > 2. “Nice guys” are generally quiet in nature and don’t open themselves up very often. They will almost never make the first move, and may (due to shyness) not respond even if the woman takes the initiative. This renders “nice guys” much more difficult to find than the assholes. > 3. The possibility that many assholes are quite capable of disguising their assholery from people who haven’t known them long enough to know better, thus making themselves seem like perfectly nice guys to women who may have just met them. > 4. The possibility that some women’s primary interest in men is not based on personality, thus making the asshole question entirely irrelevant. > 5. The possibility that some women just plain like assholes. > > You are, of course, free to choose which of the above you accept as true, and then rank them by how much you believe they account for the (mis?)perception called into question by the OP. Personally, I believe they are all true to some degree, and I would rank #1 at 90% responsible for this belief (true to the root of its cause), #2 at 4%, and give the other three 2% each. > > What does that mean? It means that, if you ask me personally, I think that the vast majority of women don’t _want_ to date assholes, it’s just kinda hard to avoid. As always, YMMV. I think you bring up a good point here. First, one has to consider that girls who date “assholes” might not consider said mate to be an asshole, regardless of how their relationship appears to outsiders. However, it’s been my experience that most women do know when they are dating an asshole. FTR, I agree with your statement that a good portion of the male population fits into this category, but I think you have to be careful because, as you said, such observation is subjective. I also think that 2 and 3 are more on target than you have indicated. The truth is not that all women like bad guys. I think that more women just end up dating the assholes sometimes believing that: 1. They can “change” him. 2. It was just one little thing, he’ll never do it again (generally believed far past the “one” time). 3. Eventually, the asshole will realize what a “good thing” he has, and he will become the man she was always sure he was, underneath it all. 4. They’ve never dated any other type of man, and so actually believe there are no true “nice guys” out there. 5. They will never find anyone else that will treat them this “well” (True assholes perpeptuate that particular myth). Out of curiosity, do we have a definition for “bad boy” or asshole that we can all agree on? Guys with earrings- not necessarily assholes or bad boys IMO. I think we need a more concrete definition. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/38 "2005-02-21T15:48:43Z")
> [@DarkSideoftheFloyd](#): > > If I’m not being whooshed, I’d say that depended on whether or not he knew you liked her. If he knew, then yes, he was an ass. > > But I have this ominous feeling I’m being whooshed. Listen to your feelings. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/39 "2005-02-21T15:59:27Z")
> [@Queen Tonya](#): > > I’d go so far as to call it nearly a rite of passage, it’s normal. Sure I crushed on Wolverine as a teenager, now that I’m in my 30s I crush on Dr.McCoy instead. 🆒 Dr. HANK McCoy? Lady, that’s just sick! ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929/40 "2005-02-21T16:04:09Z")
What? 😛 He’s strong, well-read, intelligent, well-adjusted, quotes poetry whilst kicking bad-guy butt…and, well, I’d not have to worry so much about a bad hair day with him as an SO right? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-protest-not-all-women-like-bad-guys/290929.md?page=3)