# I need to vent -housing bailout, auto industry, share the wealth, and other ramblings **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323 "2008-11-12T09:20:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/81 "2008-11-17T17:05:06Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > And telling a man who’s worked his whole life to put food on the table for his family, provide a house, and provide a decent life for them that he’s just gonna have to suck it up, go int bankruptcy and loose all he’s worked for? I don’t gather things are quite that bad for his dad, but tragically, sometimes people do get into such a hole that bankruptcy becomes the best option. Happened to a friend of mine. It’s not pretty, but neither is it the end of the world (they do not “loose” everything, for example). > [@](#): > > If I paid a kid to mow the lawn, and that kid was living on his own like adult then yes I’d pay him $20 an hour (if I had it to spare. broke college student reporting in). It’s the moral thing to do. A kid just needs some pocket money. Something sociopaths like you don’t understand. Why not $40? Why not $100? How do you decide a “moral” wage? > [@](#): > > You’re fucking scum. People like you are why there’s people starving in Africa. I give $50 a month to a hunger-relief agency, actually. Though most of it goes to Asia, so I suppose you can blame me for Africa. > [@](#): > > Idiots like you just accept the order and go “screw you I’ve got mine”. Actually, I don’t have very much that I call “mine;” my nine-year-old car is the most valuable thing I own. My debts are much greater than my assets. > [@](#): > > How about instead of being sociopaths like your bitch of a mother raised you to be. We put programs in place to help people out? We do. If you want to argue we should have more, I fully support expanding job training and re-training programs in tough economic times. I’ve worked with some, actually; like nearly all government- run (and even-government funded) charities I worked with, they’re mismanaged and inefficient, but they are a better investment than straight welfare. Hoe you’re finding this as amusing as I am. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/82 "2008-11-17T17:08:25Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > The lawn mowing kid isn’t supporting a family. If I paid a kid to mow the lawn, and that kid was living on his own like an adult then yes I’d pay him $20 an hour (if I had it to spare. broke college student reporting in. I don’t have the money to hire any work right now). A kid just needs some pocket money usually. Lots of lawn-mowing kids are saving their money up for college. That’s where all the minimum-wage-job savings I managed to hold onto in high school went. I also paid for my own transportation and a fair chunk of my own clothing. Darn good thing I saved that money, too, because my mom was sporadically employed while I was in college, which meant that I somehow had to find a way to cover what the financial aid office considered to be her share of my college expenses. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/83 "2008-11-17T18:35:35Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Hoe you’re finding this as amusing as I am. Given the way this thread went I don’t think that’s a typo.😛 Nothing like getting in an argument with someone to find out you’re in agreement. I think I misjudged you. You seem alright. Sorry for that. Metaphorical handshake? > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Lots of lawn-mowing kids are saving their money up for college. That’s where all the minimum-wage-job savings I managed to hold onto in high school went. I also paid for my own transportation and a fair chunk of my own clothing. > > Darn good thing I saved that money, too, because my mom was sporadically employed while I was in college, which meant that I somehow had to find a way to cover what the financial aid office considered to be her share of my college expenses. Well I was thinking kids like 12 years or younger, not teens, but yea EFC can be a real bitch till you’re 25. My mom makes just enough to cover her bills in a subsidized apartment. Yet they some how expect her to cough up $600 per semester. That ain’t happening. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/84 "2008-11-17T20:21:19Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Given the way this thread went I don’t think that’s a typo.😛 > > Nothing like getting in an argument with someone to find out you’re in agreement. > > I think I misjudged you. You seem alright. Sorry for that. Metaphorical handshake? Well, I’m glad to hear I’m not a sociopath. 😉 No worries. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/85 "2008-11-17T23:30:37Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Well, I’m glad to hear I’m not a sociopath. 😉 > > No worries. Well just remember IANA shrink.😛 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/86 "2008-11-18T15:36:07Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > As usual, you’re simply making things up. > > First you couldn’t distinguish between Mortgage Backed Securities and mortgages, and now you’re making up whole cloth queer claims simpy to allow yourself fact-free class resentment and populist outrage. [http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/31/frank-says-banks-should-just-use-government-funds-for-lending/](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/31/frank-says-banks-should-just-use-government-funds-for-lending/) No I am not making things up. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/87 "2008-11-18T16:06:40Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/31/frank-says-banks-should-just-use-government-funds-for-lending/](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/31/frank-says-banks-should-just-use-government-funds-for-lending/) No I am not making things up. Well in this instance I grant you, you are not. You are parroting a politician, but not making it up whole cloth. Not that the facts appear clear, but you are at least actually right on the assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/88 "2008-11-18T17:36:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/31/frank-says-banks-should-just-use-government-funds-for-lending/](http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/31/frank-says-banks-should-just-use-government-funds-for-lending/) No I am not making things up. You’re not making the quote up (although it would have been nice to cite Frank), but the same article to which you link says: > [@](#): > > Participating banks are subject to some caps on executives’ pay and are barred from using the funds to repurchase stock or increase dividends. > > However, they aren’t required to shut off dividends to shareholders. And there are no requirements that banks use the funds to lend, rather than bolster their balance sheets or make acquisitions. Indeed, Treasury supports banks using the funds to buy weaker rivals. I tend to trust the specifics given by the WSJ over a politician (especially Frank). So, your claim about restrictions appears to be partially true; of course, that also makes it partially false. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/89 "2008-11-19T17:12:51Z")
That of course is one of my objections. The buy ups are discouraged but not disallowed. We could result is a few banks all too big to be allowed to fail. We know how badly they manage internally. We know they will loot to their hearts content. We know they like to operate behind unreadable contracts and fight transparency. If they get away clean this time they will go back to their practices soon enough. We need a lot of regulation for companies that can do a lot of damage. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/90 "2008-11-19T18:04:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The buy ups are discouraged but not disallowed. While I wouldn’t cast things to the same degree as you do (i.e., “they _like_” or “they _will_”), but obviously some do. And we’d probably disagree on what “regulation” would be beneficial. But, about the above quoted bit, I’ve gotta ask: Why do you think it’s bad for a bank to buy another bank using the bailout money? Do you think _every single bank_ is totally mismanaged (and is fundamentally dishonest in its operation)? Please put aside your personal views on how the bailout money _should_ be spent; rather, focus on the potential benefits/detriments of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/91 "2008-11-19T19:27:27Z")
No I do not think we should center so much financial power is a few banks. It makes us vulnerable to their mismanagement . It worries me that they will loot. It eliminates competition. I am against oligarchy . I think more banks are help to the consumer. I do not like a few institutions having power over our country and its financial makeup. The regulators are not doing anything worthwhile. The banks have some of the best brains in the world serving their own interests above the interests of the country. On this board I am usually thought of as anti capitalist. I do not see it that way. I want real competition to exist. I want them to fight for shares of the market,not to self allocate. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/92 "2008-11-19T23:20:24Z")
Funny parody: [http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM](http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM) ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323/93 "2008-11-20T03:35:27Z")
**cisco** rants: > [@](#): > > Hey asshole, some of us also qualified for twice the house we bought and saved and did the fiscally responsible thing and got laid off (twice now) because of this fucking mess. Fuck yourself. > > And to the rest of your post: TLDR Hey, buddy. You don’t know me. Cry me a river. My house was purchased on my salary alone, since my wife and I were planning on having a child or two. I got promoted. Turnover in upper management less than a month later caused me to get laid off because I worked for a deposed C-level employee that fell out of favor. I was collateral damage (gotta get rid of the loyal former employees). I get promoted one month and on the street the next. I wasn’t “downsized” for performance. The new C-level wanted their own people in place. So you aren’t the only one that’s had a tough go of it through this mess. Get in line. And to the rest of your post: I have no idea what it means, so fuck you, and your “poor me” attitude. If you have something to say, spell it out. As for **elbows** > [@](#): > > You are angry and upset, bile rising, because you did things the ‘right’ and ‘responsible’ way. You feel a chump as others seemed to have benefited from gaming the system and living beyond their means. Only to be bailed out in the end by the stinking weasels in Washington, instead of suffering the consequences. > > I can’t help thinking that you should change your thinking a little. I certainly disagree with the bailout for all the reasons so well covered in this thread. > > You saved for your downpayment, chose a home within your means, etc. But you didn’t do so because you couldn’t find a sleazy way of gaming the system to your advantage. You did it that way because it’s who you are. Do you really think you could sleep knowing you’re gaming the system? How much bile would taking bailout money rise in you, I wonder? > > This would be easier on you to recognize that even if they do manage to benefit you never could really be one of them, because it’s not who you, fundamentally are. You may be right. My wife and I discussed this very thing this evening. Even though our family has been postponed, I just wouldn’t feel comfortable playing the game. It’s not who I am. For better or for worse. I sometimes wish I could play these fiscally irresponsible games, overspend my credit cards, miss my mortgage and car payments, but I just can’t do it on purpose. It’s been tough from time to time, but we make it. Just with less. I realize events like a prolonged layoff or an illness can wreck havoc on finances, but that wasn’t the point of my thread or my anger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-vent-housing-bailout-auto-industry-share-the-wealth-and-other-ramblings/472323.md?page=4)