# I never realized how Women viewed themselves before reading this. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 19, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287 "2012-02-19T00:38:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/21 "2012-02-19T14:14:43Z")
I’m just imagining the conversation with her husband every time they leave the house. “Yes, dear, you look fine. Now get in the car - we were late twenty minutes ago.” Having nude photographs of yourself published in the newspaper and whining about how fat you are at 46 smacks to me more than a little like fishing for compliments. It’s one thing to get your husband to reassure you that you are still beautiful and attractive and he still loves you. It’s another to try to get that from strangers. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/22 "2012-02-19T14:50:20Z")
> [@grude](#): > > It also has NOTHING to do with what straight men want, not really. It has to do with what other catty women claim men want, which is often gross(visible vertebra) and doesn’t take a real male view into mind. You’re right, I’m so incredibly glad guys don’t critique our bodies and point out ways we do or don’t fit what they want. > [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I find the OP ironic, considering he’s the one that decides what kind of [titties](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=642074) a woman should have. Oh, thank god I have the right kind!:rolleyes: Oh. Yeah, I had forgotten about that thread already. I’m just so used to having it pointed out what’s wrong with my body–by magazines, by ads for things to “fix” me, by other women, and yes, by men–that it barely even registers any more. I just automatically assume that no matter what I do pretty much everyone will think I’m defective in multiple ways and try to give it as little thought as I give other areas I have no control over. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/23 "2012-02-19T15:05:11Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I’m thinking it’s a little absurd to post a story about a woman who suspects she has body dysmorphic disorder (and if she’s “horrified” at how “fat” she is in any of those photos, that might be a fair assessment) and say “This is how women view themselves.” This ain’t how this woman views herself and I suspect there are a lot of others like me. Yes, this woman’s attitude and vanity certainly doesn’t reflect my own experience. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/24 "2012-02-19T15:12:17Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I find the OP ironic, considering he’s the one that decides what kind of [titties](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=642074) a woman should have. Oh, thank god I have the right kind!:rolleyes: Exactly. A lengthy OP about the wonders of the SI Swimsuit Issue, and then he confesses surprise that sometimes women are unhappy with the way they look. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/25 "2012-02-19T15:17:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Regardless of the accuracy of the book, we _do_ have huge inherent differences in how our brains work. We are actually more different than we appear, not less; even when males and females do equally well on a test (like a spelling bee, for example) brain scans show their brains are accomplishing the task in very different ways. Tens of millions of years of divergent evolution leave their mark. Did you watch the video I posted? Because, well, it would take me a really long time to go over everything she says, and she is an expert so she does explain it much better than I could. Read up, seriously. People have different brains. Sorting them into men and women is just one way of sorting them. You could also sort them into people who like coffee and people who like collecting stamps, and then you would also find differences. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/26 "2012-02-19T15:19:43Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I find the OP ironic, considering he’s the one that decides what kind of [titties](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=642074) a woman should have. Oh, thank god I have the right kind!:rolleyes: Nowhere in the OP did he say ‘All women should have breasts at a size I dictate.’ What he said was that he previously had a preference for small breasts but having seen a picture of a larger breasted woman that he thought looked very attractive, he was now rethinking his preference. Honestly, that’s what he said in his OP. Nothing less, nothing more. If you infer from that, that he is making some grand statement about what is and isn’t acceptable for the female form, then you are being way too touchy. I’m not a huge fan of the SD being used to share titty photos, but I really find it hard to take offence at his post. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/27 "2012-02-19T15:57:49Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > But I think that a far greater portion of the pressure than is generally attributed actually comes from other women, directly or indirectly. I’m not sure that I’d agree that the pressure comes “more” from other women, but I will say that men are generally far more forgiving of women’s “flaws” than women are. I think that the very simple explanation for this is that while men see all the same airbrushed and photoshopped images of naked women that women do, they also see a far greater variety of actual, in-person naked women than most women do. I’m pretty sure they’re astute enough to notice the difference. Also, when I’m with a man, I’m not thinking about what I _don’t_ like about his body. I presume the same mindset applies to him. As for the woman in the OP, I can relate to not appreciating my 25 year old beauty at the time. I think that’s probably true for most people. But at 40, I appreciate what’s good, accept that it will never be perfect, and don’t compare myself to 25 year olds, because that way lies madness. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/28 "2012-02-19T16:04:03Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > You’re right, I’m so incredibly glad guys don’t critique our bodies and point out ways we do or don’t fit what they want. > > Oh. Yeah, I had forgotten about that thread already. I’m just so used to having it pointed out what’s wrong with my body–by magazines, by ads for things to “fix” me, by other women, and yes, by men–that it barely even registers any more. I just automatically assume that no matter what I do pretty much everyone will think I’m defective in multiple ways and try to give it as little thought as I give other areas I have no control over. I’ll bet you look much better than you think. And your physical appearance, in the eyes of the right person, is not paramount. You are an intelligent woman. And FFS you love cats. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/29 "2012-02-19T18:09:09Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I’ll bet you look much better than you think. > And your physical appearance, in the eyes of the right person, is not paramount. > You are an intelligent woman. > And FFS you love cats. It’s very sweet of you to say so, but I already know I’m awesome, and so does my husband. 😃 That doesn’t change the fact that a great many people look at me and judge that I’m too fat/tall/pale/freckled/brunette/gray/large-chested/saggy-chested/bespectacled/crooked-toothed/underdressed/nerdy to be attractive. How do I know that’s a fact? Because people aren’t exactly shy about putting those standards out there and criticizing people who don’t meet them. Ads, magazines, tv shows, random strangers talking at the next table in a restaurant or walking through the mall, people right here on this message board. I could drive myself absolutely insane meeting one group of people’s criteria, but then I’d find that other people think I’m too skinny/tanned/blonde/dyed/flat-chested/overly primped/shallow to be attractive. It doesn’t take much intelligence to recognize a fucked if you, fucked if you don’t situation. It does, however, take a certain turn of personality (what some people would categorize as bitchy and bullheaded, and thus also unattractive) to actually accept in your heart of hearts that you’re fucked if you do and fucked if you don’t, and then say “fuck it” and please yourself. A lot of people are by nature not of that particular turn, and we try to socialize it out of people who are that way by nature…especially if those people have vaginas, because saying “aw, fuck it,” isn’t ladylike and nice and is unattractive in a woman. People might be unhappy or not like you. If people are unhappy or don’t like you, they’ll call you a bitch or a ballbuster or a skank or an ice queen or a Barbie doll or a frump or on and on and on. So we basically present the choice of “become a pleaser and make yourself miserable trying to meet umpty-billion conflicting standards, or suit yourself and be called names.” Like I said, fucked if you do, fucked if you don’t. And then we wonder why so many women are so insecure about so many things. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/30 "2012-02-19T18:44:46Z")
There’s an impression I’ve been getting about the way many women seem to react and think about looks. I often hear that magazines, TV etc put out standards of attractiveness. I get the impression that many women think that if they don’t look like the women in magazines, TV etc, they aren’t attractive. Is this common? Is the thinking: Women in magazines are attractive - I don’t look like women in magazines - ergo, I am not attractive. Even if the following is true: All unattractive women aren’t like women in magazines. All women in magazines are attractive. It still doesn’t follow that _only_ women in magazines are attractive. Is this broadly realized? Is there a lot of black and white thinking along the lines of “If I don’t look ideal, I’m bad looking”? ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/31 "2012-02-19T19:58:36Z")
While I accept a lot of women have these sort of body issues, I don’t and simply never have. If anything I have the opposite of body dysmorphia - no matter what the reality is, I still think I look pretty good. I had a baby 4 weeks ago, and in spite of the saggy tummy, stretch marks and milk-engorged boobs, I still look at myself naked and think “yeah, not bad at all considering”. I suspect my upbringing has a lot to do with it - I was always told I was beautiful, but also that there’s a lot more to me than how I look - and I hope to be able to instill the same level of confidence in my daughter as she grows up. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/32 "2012-02-19T20:26:50Z")
This reminds me how much I like that commercial where the woman says she’s going on a trip with her boyfriend and for it she bought a belt, nylons, and new shoes (that’s the commercial where she ends up standing on that tall skinny rock) - all of it climbing equipment! How refreshing! Not female drag to impress or inflame some man. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/33 "2012-02-19T20:41:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Regardless of the accuracy of the book, we _do_ have huge inherent differences in how our brains work. We are actually more different than we appear, not less; even when males and females do equally well on a test (like a spelling bee, for example) brain scans show their brains are accomplishing the task in very different ways. Tens of millions of years of **divergent evolution** leave their mark. I don’t think you know what that phrase means. Seriously, I think you have no idea what “divergent evolution” means. Look it up. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/34 "2012-02-19T20:41:52Z")
Who publishes this garbage?! This is the kind of woman that would blow her brains out if she actually were fat. Waah, she weighs 140. She can kiss my ass\*. Pack a lunch and stay for the day, bitch. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/35 "2012-02-19T20:50:41Z")
It was a Huffington Post column written by the lady herself. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/36 "2012-02-19T22:34:05Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I’m not sure that I’d agree that the pressure comes “more” from other women, but I will say that men are generally far more forgiving of women’s “flaws” than women are. > > Also, when I’m with a man, I’m not thinking about what I _don’t_ like about his body. I presume the same mindset applies to him. I have the impression that a lot of men are really quite pleased to have a naked woman available and willing to share her goodies with him - if there’s a bit of flab or a bit of sag - eh, a naked lady is a naked lady (within reason.) I’m slightly irritated by the writer of the article, but mostly I just feel bad for her. If I were to compare my looks now to my looks when I was 25 in isolation, well, I would be sad. However, when you add in experience, education, net worth, etc - Im doing quite a bit better at (almost) 40 than I was at 25 so I get over it. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/37 "2012-02-19T22:47:22Z")
> [@Jennyrosity](#): > > While I accept a lot of women have these sort of body issues, I don’t and simply never have. If anything I have the opposite of body dysmorphia - no matter what the reality is, I still think I look pretty good. I had a baby 4 weeks ago, and in spite of the saggy tummy, stretch marks and milk-engorged boobs, I still look at myself naked and think “yeah, not bad at all considering”. > > I suspect my upbringing has a lot to do with it - I was always told I was beautiful, but also that there’s a lot more to me than how I look - and I hope to be able to instill the same level of confidence in my daughter as she grows up. I feel exactly the same way, and I have very, very many friends who are genuinely very happy with their bodies. Also some male friends who have very clear bdd, just to dispel the idea that it’s a women’s only thing. My flatmate Tom is probably the worst case I have ever personally encountered. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/38 "2012-02-19T23:00:50Z")
I don’t read the magazines, I never actively try to buy into that shit, but I feel the insecurities nonetheless. One of the hardest things is trying to lose weight for my own health without making it into a body image thing. I learned from a recent visit to a nurse that I am dramatically more healthy than I thought I was - I seriously thought I was on death’s door and was beating myself up everyday about how I was going to die at 35 if I didn’t get skinny fast. The truth is, I’m 25lbs overweight, have a waist-to-hip-ratio in normal range and am considered in good fitness overall. There is plenty of room for improvement, but I’m not on the verge of a fatal heart attack. I’m beginning to think the industry that cares so much about your health is just as nefarious as the industry that wants you to buy stuff so you’ll look pretty. Now instead of just feeling ugly, we can feel ugly _and_ unhealthy, and spend twice as much money. I’ve gotten to the point where I’m saying, ‘‘To hell with this shit, I’ll define my health and beauty by my own terms.’’ But it’s a lot harder to let go of than you would think. The stupidest thing about it is, I’m married to a guy that’s just nuts about my body. I have no real reason to want to be thinner, other than the fact that it’s more socially acceptable. I take some solace in the fact that truly beautiful, healthy people are miserable about their bodies too. It gives me the perspective of knowing that it’s probably not the magical transformation I imagine it to be. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/39 "2012-02-20T00:07:39Z")
It’s not just media. My mother has made it her life’s work to screw up my self-image. First, it was weight. I was, at most, maybe 10 lbs. overweight most of my life until I went into the Navy, but she made sure I knew about every last one of those pounds, and in the process, made me think I was fat even when I wasn’t. It’s wreaking hell now that I actually am losing all the weight I gained, because my body image isn’t accurate and I know it. Now her mission is to make me feel ugly because I don’t wear makeup. This campaign doesn’t bother me as much because I’ve never worn makeup and don’t feel the need to. Trust me, it doesn’t always come from a magazine. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287/40 "2012-02-20T00:20:44Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > Watch [this](http://fora.tv/2010/10/02/Cordelia_Fine_Delusions_of_Gender) for an excellent introduction by Cordelia Fine on all that is wrong with John Gray’s terrible book. If you want to find out more, look up her books and also the research by Dr. Rebecca Jordan-Young. They both discuss the vast flaws in the research into the differences in the male and female brain. That’s a very clever video - I muted the ad, and now that the actual video’s started there’s no unmute button. So if you want to watch it, you have to hear the ad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-realized-how-women-viewed-themselves-before-reading-this/613287.md?page=3)