# I never would have guessed that's how you spell it **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754 "2015-02-15T22:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/1 "2015-02-15T22:30:38Z")
Zihuatanejo > [@](#): > > Dear Red, If you’re reading this, you’ve gotten out. And if you’ve come this far, maybe you’re willing to come a little further. You remember the name of the town, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/2 "2015-02-16T02:02:00Z")
capicola ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/3 "2015-02-16T02:08:11Z")
Siobhan How that spells She-vawn has got me futterly Ucked. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/4 "2015-02-16T02:17:46Z")
Occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/5 "2015-02-16T02:20:32Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > Siobhan > > How that spells She-vawn has got me futterly Ucked. _shrug_ Irish isn’t English. There are two kinds of S, broad (like English S) and slender (like English SH). Before an I, it’s slender: si = she. Bh is pronounced like English V in most dialects. It’s B plus H because it’s historically what happened to the B sound in particular phonetic environments. (Which, incidentally, is also why they don’t use SH for the English “sh” sound, but for an H sound instead.) This Bh is broad, and so it has to be flanked by broad vowels: and o in the front, which is sort of pointless but is a rule of Irish spelling, and the Á following which is long and makes the “aw” sound. N is N. So, Siobhán = Si + (o) + bh + á + n = English-spelling Shee + () + v + aw + n. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/6 "2015-02-16T02:24:13Z")
Without the accent, the “a” would sound like the a in “sad”, right? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/7 "2015-02-16T02:31:10Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > _shrug_ Irish isn’t English. There are two kinds of S, broad (like English S) and slender (like English SH). Before an I, it’s slender: si = she. > Bh is pronounced like English V in most dialects. It’s B plus H because it’s historically what happened to the B sound in particular phonetic environments. (Which, incidentally, is also why they don’t use SH for the English “sh” sound, but for an H sound instead.) This Bh is broad, and so it has to be flanked by broad vowels: and o in the front, which is sort of pointless but is a rule of Irish spelling, and the Á following which is long and makes the “aw” sound. N is N. > > So, Siobhán = Si + (o) + bh + á + n = English-spelling Shee + () + v + aw + n. Dr. Drake, take a stab at “Seamus”? (“Shamus,” I think?) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/8 "2015-02-16T03:00:49Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Dr. Drake, take a stab at “Seamus”? (“Shamus,” I think?) Same thing: Se = slender S (“sh”) + E with its Continental value (“ay,” as in Spanish or Italian) = Shay M is broad, so it needs a pointless broad vowel in front (a) US = us Se + (a) + m + u + s = shay + () + m + u + s. I’m not sure if short “a” is always as in “sad,” but it sometimes is. There’s a lot of variation by dialect. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/9 "2015-02-16T03:05:44Z")
facade seems to defy all logic. let’s not get started on colonel. Neither the British nor American pronunciation of lieutenant makes me very happy either. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/10 "2015-02-16T03:24:38Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Dr. Drake, take a stab at “Seamus”? (“Shamus,” I think?) It’s the same is Siobhan, except easier to wrap your head around. Really, people love to comment on the lack of an “h” in Irish S-names, but what I don’t get is how they find that much harder than say understanding that the two "c"s in San Francisco can be pronounced differently based on the letter following. For Irish (and I think Scottish sometimes, it looks to me like Manx doesn’t do this but I could be wrong), it helps if you realize that the character “h” is not really in the alphabet, but it is a character used to indicate [lenition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition) of the previous character. It just _happens_ to be an h. Before "h’, a dot accent mark was used. If you want the “h” sound, use “sh” or “th.” Niamh and Saoirse even make sense, once you know the rules! (That “ao” pair is one of the least apparent though). > [@drewtwo99](#): > > facade seems to defy all logic. let’s not get started on colonel. > > Neither the British nor American pronunciation of lieutenant makes me very happy either. That’s because it’s spelled “façade.” American lieutenant is at least close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/11 "2015-02-16T03:28:42Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > facade seems to defy all logic. let’s not get started on colonel. > > Neither the British nor American pronunciation of lieutenant makes me very happy either. American “lew-tenant” makes sence. British “lef-tenant” makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/12 "2015-02-16T04:56:29Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > \ let’s not get started on colonel. \ [The Master speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/752/why-is-colonel-pronounced-kernel) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/13 "2015-02-16T05:02:09Z")
I was on Bill Nighy’s Wikipedia page yesterday and notice that at the top it said “this is the page for the British actor. For the scientist Bill Nye, click here.” I was like “WTF?” until I saw the pronunciation guide next to Nighy’s name. Apparently his is also pronounced “Nye.” Er…dammit, sorry - I would have never guessed that’s how you PRONOUNCE it. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/14 "2015-02-16T05:16:40Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > So, Siobhán = Si + (o) + bh + á + n = English-spelling Shee + () + v + aw + n. “Shee-vawn” is lovely to hear (that HAS to be from “Yvonne” or vice versa), “Sigh-OB-han” not so much. Thanks for the lesson. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > \ Niamh and Saoirse even make sense, once you know the rules! (That “ao” pair is one of the least apparent though). \ Oh, no, you’re not getting away that easy; you have to at least give us the pronunciation equivalent. Please? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/15 "2015-02-16T05:33:37Z")
Niamh = Neeve (or thereabouts). I didn’t realise that hors d’ouevres and “orderves” were the same thing for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/16 "2015-02-16T05:39:36Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Niamh = Neeve (or thereabouts). > > I didn’t realise that hors d’ouevres and “orderves” were the same thing for a long time. You mean it’s NOT “horse dooverz”? :o Thanks for “Niamh.” ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/17 "2015-02-16T05:40:23Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > American “lew-tenant” makes sence. British “lef-tenant” makes no sense. Neither does putting an “o” in “maneuver”, which at least makes sense by French rules. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/18 "2015-02-16T06:22:27Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Zihuatanejo And the response to “You remember the name of the town, don’t you?” from the Family Guy episode: > [@](#): > > CRAP! I would’ve thought it has some X’s in there or something. > [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Oh, no, you’re not getting away that easy; you have to at least give us the pronunciation equivalent. Please? Sear-shaw, maybe with more of a “schwa” sound at the end than a drawn out “aww.” Wikipedia put it as /ˈsɪərʃə/ on arguably the most famous [person](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoirse_Ronan)with that name. The “[ao](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_orthography#Di-_and_trigraphs)” = long “i” part is what I was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/19 "2015-02-16T07:09:22Z")
Aloysius. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/20 "2015-02-16T09:23:05Z")
Story of my life with a Polish last name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754.md?page=2)