# I never would have guessed that's how you spell it **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754 "2015-02-15T22:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/41 "2015-02-16T16:44:48Z")
Victuals. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/42 "2015-02-16T16:55:29Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Downy oshun Wouldn’t wanna be there today. _brrrrrrrr_ I’ve heard non-Merrylanders say “TOE-son” for Towson, but I suppose there’s a certain logic to that pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/43 "2015-02-16T17:12:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What did you think it was? Niggy? I would have thought it was two syllables. I probably assume the nigh- was pronounced the way it’s pronounced in night (or rhyming with high or sigh) and the -y is pronounced -ee. So I’d have guessed nI-hee. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/44 "2015-02-16T17:49:44Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > /ˈmeɪv/, “mayv,” rhymes with “wave.” Sometimes it’s spelled “Medb,” which I just don’t get, but obviously that’s a medieval spelling. > I think these are “slender” pronunciation, because of the “e.” So “dh” = /j/ (y sound), “bh” = /v/ or it looks like /vʲ/. When an American pronounces “water,” the middle -t- doesn’t make the same sound as when he or she pronounces “time.” That’s because between a consonant’s sound can change depending on position (this is what the link to “lenition” above is talking about). So M-e-d-b was once m-e-d-b, but over the course of time, sounds changed. It then became m-e-dh-bh, still spelled Medb in the medieval period, and Meḋḃ in the early modern period. Initially, dh = ð (like the TH in “then”), and bh = v. But in a slender environment, dh changed again, to something more like English y as in “yes.” So: 1. M-e-d-b 2. M-e-ð-v 3. M-e-y-v rhymes with wave. Incidentally, the cognate in Welsh (meddw) and Breton (mezv) means “drunk”; the name is sometimes translated “she who intoxicates.” ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/45 "2015-02-16T18:01:17Z")
segue ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/46 "2015-02-16T18:15:53Z")
Queue ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/47 "2015-02-16T18:16:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What did you think it was? Niggy? I would have pronounced it “Nigh-ee”. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/48 "2015-02-16T18:18:07Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Yeah, that would be the Balmer accent at work. :rolleyes: :smack: Balmer, Merlin. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/49 "2015-02-16T19:30:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would have thought it was two syllables. I probably assume the nigh- was pronounced the way it’s pronounced in night (or rhyming with high or sigh) and the -y is pronounced -ee. So I’d have guessed nI-hee. I don’t know about you, but in my accent it’s very difficult to get Nye with one syllable and Nigh-y with two syllables to sound different from each other. Like Marr and Maher. I have to try hard to make them sound different. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/50 "2015-02-16T20:55:48Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > “Shee-vawn” is lovely to hear (that HAS to be from “Yvonne” or vice versa) The names are unrelated etymologically, so far as I can tell (if that’s what you mean by the name “being from” Yvonne.) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/51 "2015-02-16T21:07:43Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Apparently there is no whore in hors d’oeuvres. There is in spaghetti alla puttanesca. > [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > In French. In English the ‘c’ carries no cedilla. The US edition of Microsoft Word disagrees with you. Firefox thinks it doesn’t though. It is also naïve, not naive. The non-accented is a fine variation, but it’s not the correct or only way to spell it. > [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Or me the first time I saw the word _victuals_. I knew what it meant, but I assumed the word I heard on Beverly Hillbillies was a slang version. Also, boatswain = bosun, but it wasn’t immediately clear that the latter wasn’t slang. And chitterlings = chittlins. I have heard “nigh-hee,” but no, it’s just “Nye.” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/52 "2015-02-16T21:30:33Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Also, boatswain = bosun, but it wasn’t immediately clear that the latter wasn’t slang. And chitterlings = chittlins. And coxswain = coxsun ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/53 "2015-02-16T21:55:24Z")
There’s, of course, plenty of British place names and surnames that fit this, one of my favorites being “Fanshaw” spelled as “Fetherstonhaugh.” ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/54 "2015-02-16T21:59:21Z")
Other nautical terms: gunwale (pronounced _GUN’l_) and forecastle (FOK’s’l) with a long O. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/55 "2015-02-16T22:04:31Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > A question (not mocking – I’m honestly curious) for the Irish-language scholars. Niamh, we learn, is pronounced approximately “Neev”. Per my understanding – possibly wrong – the name of the great queen in ancient legend, is pronounced “Meev”, but spelt “Maedhbh”. Please could someone explain this seeming oddity? (I get the impression that Irish spelling conventions may seem strange and complicated, but are basically regular and consistent.) > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > /ˈmeɪv/, “mayv,” rhymes with “wave.” Sometimes it’s spelled “Medb,” which I just don’t get, but obviously that’s a medieval spelling. > I think these are “slender” pronunciation, because of the “e.” So “dh” = /j/ (y sound), “bh” = /v/ or it looks like /vʲ/. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > When an American pronounces “water,” the middle -t- doesn’t make the same sound as when he or she pronounces “time.” That’s because between a consonant’s sound can change depending on position (this is what the link to “lenition” above is talking about). > > So M-e-d-b was once m-e-d-b, but over the course of time, sounds changed. > It then became m-e-dh-bh, still spelled Medb in the medieval period, and Meḋḃ in the early modern period. > > Initially, dh = ð (like the TH in “then”), and bh = v. But in a slender environment, dh changed again, to something more like English y as in “yes.” > > So: > > 1. M-e-d-b > 2. M-e-ð-v > 3. M-e-y-v rhymes with wave. > > Incidentally, the cognate in Welsh (meddw) and Breton (mezv) means “drunk”; the name is sometimes translated “she who intoxicates.” Thanks – ignorance fought, sorta-kinda ! I get the feeling that I’d do best to keep the Celtic languages at a respectful distance, and not try to understand them… ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/56 "2015-02-16T22:18:23Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Other nautical terms: gunwale (pronounced _GUN’l_) and forecastle (FOK’s’l) with a long O. Or fo’c’s’le. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/57 "2015-02-16T22:32:52Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Thanks – ignorance fought, sorta-kinda ! I get the feeling that I’d do best to keep the Celtic languages at a respectful distance, and not try to understand them… There’s nothing particularly mysterious or difficult about Celtic languages. Learning any language that is significantly different from your own requires being willing to discards assumptions about how languages work. And IMHO, it’s disrespectful to suggest one is more comfortable avoiding the innocuous features of another culture, even if you throw in the word “respectful.” And I say that as someone who has been told so many times “I’m not even going to try to say your name because I know I’ll mispronounce it.” Mispronouncing s name because you don’t know how it’s pronounced it because or used sounds you are not used to is not disrespectful. Suggesting that someone else’s culture is so strange and foreign that you would rather shun it is. ---
**Author:** ![Weftover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Weftover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weftover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/58 "2015-02-16T23:02:21Z")
One of my favorite place names is in Pennsylvania; it’s a great river for canoeing and kayaking spelled Youghiogheny, and pronounced Yock-e-gheny. Whoever came up with that one was imaginative! ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/59 "2015-02-16T23:13:46Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Thanks – ignorance fought, sorta-kinda ! I get the feeling that I’d do best to keep the Celtic languages at a respectful distance, and not try to understand them… > [@Acsenray](#): > > There’s nothing particularly mysterious or difficult about Celtic languages. Learning any language that is significantly different from your own requires being willing to discards assumptions about how languages work. > > And IMHO, it’s disrespectful to suggest one is more comfortable avoiding the innocuous features of another culture, even if you throw in the word “respectful.” > > And I say that as someone who has been told so many times “I’m not even going to try to say your name because I know I’ll mispronounce it.” > > Mispronouncing s name because you don’t know how it’s pronounced it because or used sounds you are not used to is not disrespectful. > > Suggesting that someone else’s culture is so strange and foreign that you would rather shun it is. **Acsenray** – well, if we were in Japan, ritual self-disembowelment on my part, in order to atone, would perhaps be in order – though you will probably jump on that allusion as disrespectful and mocking vis-a-vis Japanese culture. I’m over-reacting as above, to what I feel as over-reacting by you, to what I said – not meant nastily by me, just indicating “for me, life’s too short – for you, do what you will”. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754/60 "2015-02-16T23:26:14Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > **Acsenray** – well, if we were in Japan, ritual self-disembowelment on my part, in order to atone, would perhaps be in order – though you will probably jump on that allusion as disrespectful and mocking vis-a-vis Japanese culture. Japanese is super easy to pronounce. I don’t expect everyone to pronounce their “R” perfect, or aspirate properly with “fu” and “sh”. But pronouncing that as “heri keri” grates my teeth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-never-would-have-guessed-thats-how-you-spell-it/712754.md?page=4)