I never would have guessed that's how you spell it

[Dr.Drake]

Rats, I may have screwed up slightly. Sio- should probably be /∫i/, since the O is only there because the Ch is broad and it needs a broad vowel lead in. So change the above to reflect that. I always find the vowels trickier than the consonants.

[cwthree]

Thanks, Dr. Drake, for that very thorough explanation! I hadn’t thought about the similar lenition of /f/ in Hispanic Latin. That all makes more sense now.

[burpo_the_wonder_mutt]

Hey, Dr. Drake, I need you to tell me how “cwthree” is pronounced. I would think with all those consonants in a row, it’s Irish, but the ‘cw’ in the beginning makes me lean towards Welsh…

(This is where you say, “Go away, kid, you bother me.”)

bump never came back to tell us how “Hrncir” is pronounced.

[cwthree]

@burpo_the_wonder_mutt

bump never came back to tell us how “Hrncir” is pronounced.

“Hrncir” is most likely pronounced “hurn-cheer” or “hurn-tseer” depending on which Slavic language it’s derived from (I leave it to Dr. Drake to put that into proper IPA notation).

cwthree cannot be pronounced by mortal men. The man (or woman) who speaks it aloud will draw the wrath of God and suffer hangnails.

[thelurkinghorror]

From what I can tell, it’s Czech (and maybe Slovak), spelled “Hrnčíř.” č is ch as in cheese. I don’t know how to explain the ř in English but it’s a “Voiced alveolar raised non-sonorant trill.”

[burpo_the_wonder_mutt]

@thelurkinghorror

<snip> …but it’s a “Voiced alveolar raised non-sonorant trill.”

And we all know how painful that can be.

GOOD NIGHT! DRIVE SAFELY!

[Flywheel]

@Eyebrows_0f_Doom

Do you mean she pronounces it uh-LEE-SEE-uh as oppose to uh-LEE-SHE-uh? Because I’m an American and I have never in my life heard anyone say the name as uh-LISH-ya.

Or does she pronounce it uh-LEE-see-uh? (i.e. no emphasis on “see”)

[SciFiSam]

@Dr.Drake

Oh, Lord, I can try.

Siochfhradha consists of the following letters:

S + i + o + ch + fh + r + a + dh + a.

Fh is a special case, because the lenited form of F is silent. (Historically, it’s what happened to F in Hispanic Latin, too, which is why fumus, “smoke,” becomes humo, “smoke,” with no initial consonant. Both medieval Irish and Spanish probably had a phase where it was /h/ like English H, but it’s just silent now.)

So that leaves S + i + o + ch + r + a + dh + a.

Broad Dh is a /γ/ sound, a bit like the French uvular R. It’s actually the voiced form of Ch /x/, like German Bach or Scottish loch. By “voiced” I mean that whatever you do to turn K into G, do that to /x/ and it turns into /γ/. Between two broad unstressed vowels, though, Irish /aγa/ collapses to /u/ in many dialects.

So now we have S + i + o + /x/ + r + /u/

The s + i + o combination is the same as Siobhan: sho, or in IPA, /∫o/

So that’s /∫/ + o + /x/ + r + /u/.

In many dialects, /x/ is weakly articulated (not said with quite so much spit) in medial position, so it just becomes /h/.

Now it’s /∫/ + o + /h/ + r + /u/.

To recap:

Si = /∫/ Sh
o = o
ch = /h/ h
fh is there for historical, etymological reasons. Silent.
r = r
adha = u.

That’s a really well explained answer - bravo!

This bit:

Between two broad unstressed vowels, though, Irish /aγa/ collapses to /u/ in many dialects

Also makes sense when you think of “agua” as Spanish (as in Spain - don’t know about elsewhere) speakers say it, because the consonant turns into a semi-glide which could easily disappear over time.

[cwthree]

[QUOTE=Dr. Drake]

Between two broad unstressed vowels, though, Irish /aγa/ collapses to /u/ in many dialects

[/QUOTE]

Digging way, way back to the Farsi classes I took as an undergrad, I recall that something similar happens in that language as well. Long /a/ (“a” as in “father”) turns into /u/ in many dialects or regional accents. Nan (“bread”) and chane (“chin”), for example, become nun and chune.

I wonder if a similar process happened in Farsi? Perhaps the sound that is now written with 'alef and pronounced /a/ or /u/ was originally an /aa/ sound?