# I noticed somthing Odd in Empire Strikes Back **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984 "2003-09-21T16:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/41 "2003-09-24T03:16:58Z")
I have a question about ESB. I seem to remember a scene in which we see Vader from above and behind sitting in some kind of circular chamber. The top lifts off, he doesn’t have his helmet on and we see the top of his head which is basically exposed…brain. I know I wasn’t high; was I hallucinating? I’d swear I saw that scene in the theater. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/42 "2003-09-24T03:33:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JSexton \* > \*\* > I think the admirals (and down) actually command the ships, while generals (and down) carry out ground based missions, sometimes from ships. General Veers leads AT-ATs dropped from ships commanded by Admiral Motti, for example. Think of it like Marines being transported by the Navy in the US. > > – > Justin \*\* [Farker] Don’t forget Admiral Akbar, in charge of trap detection. [/Farker] ---
**Author:** ![Nvme77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Nvme77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nvme77)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/43 "2003-09-24T03:58:21Z")
Yeah Photo, that happened. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/44 "2003-09-24T04:06:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FordPrefect \* > \*\*It might have been in the book, but I could swear that before the battle of Yavin a commander told Luke that they would handle a lot like the T-16 he flew at home, plus he, and Biggs, used to hunt wombats with it, and they are not more than two meters across. \*\* He did. Lucas _may_ have cut that out in the _Stupified Edition_ that he released a few years ago, but it _was_ in the original. Burt Rutan is using a similar philosophy in his X-Prize [contender.](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/space.html?pg=3&topic=&topic_set=) > [@](#): > > Another Rutan signature is the design of the cockpits and systems of both aircraft. They’re practically identical, from layout to avionics to environmental controls, he says, bounding over to SpaceShipOne’s cabin. “The actuator that operates this stabilizer” - he points to the rear one on SS1 - “is the same part number for the one on White Knight. So unlike every other spaceship that’s ever been developed, we test SpaceShipOne every time we fly White Knight. For eight months we’ve been flying our spaceship.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/45 "2003-09-24T04:33:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\*I have a question about ESB. I seem to remember a scene in which we see Vader from above and behind sitting in some kind of circular chamber. The top lifts off, he doesn’t have his helmet on and we see the top of his head which is basically exposed…brain. > > I know I wasn’t high; was I hallucinating? I’d swear I saw that scene in the theater. \*\* Actually, that was Vader’s bald and deeply scarred scalp, compliments of a fight with Obi-Wan Kenobi that ended with him falling into a pit of molten something-or-other. He was severly burned and apparently his lungs were so severely damaged that he ended up having to spend the rest of his life wearing a climate controlled HAZMAT suit, complete with built-in respirator. At least that’s the version presented in the novelization of ESB Easy mistake to make, though. With the twisted scars and the veins clearly visible through the skin, coupled with the fact that the audience is only shown the briefest glimpse of the back of Vader’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Baggins111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@Baggins111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baggins111)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/46 "2003-09-24T13:08:37Z")
IIRC, (and not that matters a pair of fetid dingo’s kidneys) the X-wing is an Incom T-65. The X-wing was never called an X-wing until _well_ into Ep. V when Luke heads to Bespin. . The T.I.E. (Twin Ion Engine) Fighter wasn’t called that until Ep V, either. I remember hearing that the common names were taken from what the FX guys called them when they were shooting Ep IV. “Hey, hand me that… x-wing thingy for this next shot.” Has anyone else noticed that a _lot_ of vehicles, spacecraft, etc. from Ep. I and II are actually from the concept drawings they had for IV, V and VI? I used to get all those how they made the movie books when I was younger and study them for hours. I’m pretty sure that the “walkers” that were airlifted in at the end of Ep. II are straight out of old concept. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/47 "2003-09-24T16:30:50Z")
Yeah, the T.I.E. fighters looked like bow ties. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/48 "2003-09-24T17:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*[Cliff Claven] > “Actually, it’s a little known fact that the desert womp rat of Tatooine is almost extinct…” > [/Cliff Claven] \*\* I was waiting for that! I was thinking of paraphrasing him, myself: “It’s a little known fact that, if the womprat were able to speak, due to the shape of its larnyx, it couldn’t pronounce the word _lasagna_.” ---
**Author:** ![lt180ml](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lt180ml](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lt180ml)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/49 "2003-09-24T19:59:22Z")
How about Luke becoming an X-Wing pilot in a few hours at the end of Star Wars? What was his flight experience? Shooting wamp-rats or whatever on his jerkwater planet in the equivalent of an old Cesna? And that qualifies him to fly the most advanced fighter in the galaxy? Luke got to fly because that was the reward he requested for rescuing Princess Leia; Han’s award was a lot of money. It had nothing to do with their perception of his aerobatic prowess. At least that’s what happened in the novel. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/50 "2003-09-24T20:36:19Z")
Yep, T-16. T-33 is a USAF trainer. Well, don’t forget, Biggs vouched for him. Check the Radio Play, poor Biggs had his movie part cut. But he was a top rebel pilot, and _he_ said Luke was as good as, if not better than he was. Surprising amount of stuff from the movie hangs together on examination. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/51 "2003-09-25T02:58:18Z")
Biggs is in the SE. Yeah, you could see Vader’s bald head. It was pretty nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/52 "2003-09-25T21:11:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*[http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/hoth/light/large/majorbrenderlin.html](http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/hoth/light/large/majorbrenderlin.html) > > Cliff Claven, Rebel Hero. \*\* Funny how your memory plays tricks on you. I haven’t watched ESB for probably about ten years, but I swear I remember him on the bridge of one of those imperial ships. Huh. Oh well, now I’m off to the **Memento** thread… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/53 "2003-09-26T03:10:40Z")
Actually, the dude who played Admiral Ozzel did bear a resemblance to ol’ Cliffy Boy. You remember Admiral Ozzel? “Lord Vader, the fleet has moved out of hypersp… aarggh, gag, gag…” And did anyone else think the dude who played Captain/Admiral Piett was a hottie? I can’t remember his name anymore, but I had quite a crush on him when I was a youngun’. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/54 "2003-09-26T09:51:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thea Logica \* > \*\*And did anyone else think the dude who played Captain/Admiral Piett was a hottie? I can’t remember his name anymore, but I had quite a crush on him when I was a youngun’. \*\* That has to be the best Star Wars crush i’ve ever heard. 😃 [sub]although someone’s probably going to confess now to fancying Chewbacca.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/55 "2003-09-27T21:41:26Z")
Actully, when he’s not wapped in a big fake fur rug, Peter Mayhew is actually quite good-looking. David Prowse isn’t bad, either. [gripe about ending of ROTJ] Apparently David Prowse spilled the beans during production about Luke and Leia being sibs, and his punishment was… well, you saw his punishment. The actor who played the unmasked Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker was obviously more than a little overweight- his face was pudgy in the unmasking scene, and in the apparition at the end, there was quite a bit of bulk around the waist. Now, it was apparent all through the movies that Vader, underneath all that armour, was actually very physically fit. Hell, everybody and their dog knew that David Prowse was a bodybuilder before he was tapped to play Darth Vader (or at least hold up the suit), and hey, did Lucas really expect us to believe that an overweight middle-aged man, even aided by the Power of the Force, would have the physical stamina to engage in two separate lengthy lightsaber battles and hold his own against a man in his early twenties?[/gripe about ROTJ] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/56 "2003-09-27T22:16:50Z")
Actually, it makes perfect sense for the guy under the mask to be pudgy and out of shape. Remember, his physical muscles haven’t gotten any exercise in decades. He’s more machine than man under that armor. That imposing physique and incredible strength was mostly cybernetic. Meanwhile, the fleshy bits that are left get all pale and saggy. Does make you wonder about how the force decided to fill in the missing bits when he came back all blue and translucent. I mean, Obi-Wan was still grey and wrinkly, just like he was when he died. But Anakin wasn’t bald, or scarred, or missing large chunks of his torso. How does the Force decide how to replace the missing bits? If Vader hasn’t had a lower intestine since he looked like Hayden Christenson, how does the force know he’d have a gut when he comes back as Sebastian Shaw? And if it’s the Jedi who decides what he looks like when he manifests himself, why would Obi Wan choose to look like Alec Guinness when he could look like Ewan MacGregor? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/57 "2003-09-27T22:25:25Z")
Because Alec Guiness is cool, and Ewan MacGregor isn’t. Really. I always took it to be a representation of how Anakin would have aged if he hadn’t turned to the dark side, but that’s just wild speculation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/58 "2003-09-27T22:59:14Z")
OK, I haven’t seen AOTC yet, but I don’t mind spoilers, really. I’m assuming **Miller’s** info came from Ep. 2, so… Just how much of Anakin/Vader’s body went missing after he crawled out of that pit. I was under the impression that he basically was in need of a portable respirator and maybe pacemaker, and a cybernetic limb, but the rest of him was basically human meat and bone. And for someone who was in need of artificial life support, well, let’s just say it makes the fight scenes with Luke that much more impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/59 "2003-09-27T23:23:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Thea Logica_ > I’m assuming Miller’s info came from Ep. 2, so… Actually, it came from _Return of the Jedi_. Obi-Wan, talking about Vader: “He’s more machine now than man; twisted and evil.” They haven’t gotten specific about which bits he’s missing, other than his right arm, hair, and functioning lungs. I say, most of him is gone, if not directly at the hands of Obi-Wan, then bit by bit over all the years he worked as Palpatine’s personal Jedi assassin. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984/60 "2003-09-27T23:41:15Z")
Obi-wan. Um, this is the guy who told Luke that Darth Vader killed his father… I think there is a really strong likelihood that if Obi-Wan was being metaphorical in saying Darth Vader had killed Anakin Skywalker, then he might have been leaning towards hyperbole when he said Vader was “more machine than man”. In the ROTJ novelization, Obi-Wan states that Vader crawled out of the molten pit, which carries a pretty strong implication of having at least one good arm and possibly legs as well. I’m guessing that probably most of his body was intact, though obviously pretty severely damaged, in order for him to be able to get out of the molten pit under his own power. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-noticed-somthing-odd-in-empire-strikes-back/202984.md?page=4)